Forgive me if this has been brought up on this site before, but where in the world did "any traffic in the area please advise" come from and why can't it just die a quick death. I even hear SkyWest pilots using it although since 2007 the AIM makes it clear it should not be used. It is like finger nails on a chalk board every time I hear it.

I have no idea either, the NetJet and FlexJet guys use it coming into Minden (KMEV) as well. Read in AOPA Pilot that it's one of the major complaints of pilots everywhere. It makes absolutely no sense at all. Wish they'd just shut up and listen for a bit or just annouce their position and intentions like they are supposed to.

If the pattern were crowded, and everyone in it were stupid enough to respond, all they'd get is a squeal in their headsets anyway.

Off the soapbox . . . rant off.

bumper

Always reply to that call. No matter where you are, if you hear it respond to it. Something like..."Over by this tree." "I'm over here." Etc. Maybe given enough dumb answers the practice will slow down a little.

Wow, if that's the most annoying thing you guys routinely hear on the radio you guys must be flying amongst a pretty shit hot crowd. I've heard a lot of SA sucking calls - in many cases everyone would have been better off if the offender just didn't even bother to even key the mic. A little prompting to get some folks to self announce is hardly anything to get worked up about.

The problem with those dingbats asking for traffic advisories is there are NORDOs out there, especially at small, untowered fields with a grass strip. I fly out of Ann Arbor (MI), where there's a 3500' paved strip (6-24) crossed by a 2800' grass strip (12-30). After 8pm, when the tower closes, we get everything imaginable out there, including bizjets and a non-electric Champ.

Last night, calm winds, I'm on 12, someone's landing on 24, and someone else calls in he's landing on 6. It all worked out because we were talking to each other, but it was a bit scary for a moment there (the guy landing on 6 was still a ways out with the guy on 24 on short final).

When it's VFR, it's up to the PIC to look out the window for traffic, not ask everyone else to do his job for him. It's great to know where everyone is, but they need to be prepared for surprises. If they just listen for a minute, they'll figure out where the traffic is, and they should be entering the pattern correctly anyway. But I've heard instructors ask for traffic advisories, too, so these new folks are learning bad habits right from the beginning.

I've got enough to do flying my plane, much less flying someone else's, too!

ASW

Let me see....I'm flying a 1900 with 15 folks in the back...into Durango. Lots of training +lots of student pilots and low timers....who often suffer "mike=fright" or are simply pre-occupied with flying the plane.....I have two ways to error here....I can be cool and not ask" the taboo question " and risk all my passenger's lives or I can ask in hope it will stimulate someone who is "cool" to respond and perhaps save a mid-air.......and be criticized on forums........not a tough call......sure NORDO s won't hear but the onenon-NORDO who does may scrape my paint.....all about risk management.....I have heard the "call" stimulate many replies and position reports while training in Durango......including myself.....

First I must say that I suck at using a radio. Most of my training was done NORDO so I am really lacking in experience when I comes to radios. I always chuckle when I hear someone say "any traffic please advise," most if the time it won't be 10 seconds after someone announced their position in the pattern I usually just wait and make my normal position report unless the guy asking about traffic could be in my close proximity.

The thing that really gets me is when people don't say the airport after their transmission. Most of the time I miss the beginning of the call so when they don's say the airport at the end then I might not know where they are.

Example:

Friday I flew from Nampa to Caldwell which is like a 5 min flight and the runways are pretty close to lined up. I took off from runway 29. There was a cub in the pattern in Caldwell so I thought I'll enter a right base for 30 if the timing is right. I could see no one else in the pattern nor could I hear anyone at Caldwell except the cub. There was one guy I could sorta hear, real faint, I couldn't understand the beginning of his transmissions but I could hear him say what I thought was runway 20. He didn't say the airport at the end of his transmission, just 20. So I figured he was at another airport a ways off, which was why he was so faint on the radio. The cub was on final when I was positioned for a base turn, I couldn’t see anyone so I made my call and turned base. Right after that I heard someone one the radio make a call about a 360 turn on downwind. I thought “did I just cut someone off”, at the same time I scanned the pattern again and this time I saw a pitts a few hundred feet above me making a turn...oops.

If the guy had just followed procedure and said the airport at the end of the transmission it wouldn't have happened...still, felt real bad for cutting in front of him

Whee, that's a good point. Get up to 5000 feet or so where I fly and you can hear 122.8 traffic for 80 miles. It's always nice to hear the airport name tacked onto the end of the transmission.

blackrock wrote:2007 the AIM makes it clear it should not be used. ...

I don't have my AIM in fornt of me, but where exactly in the AIM does it specifically state not to use that phaseology?

I have been handed off my approach to several smaller, uncontrolled airports with the last little quip from them stating, "there looks to be 2 others in the pattern, change to advisory frequency is approved. Good day." I switch over and since I have a few minutes, I just listen. 3 minutes goes by (keep in mind, I am flying a Maule... Things can take a while). Then I make the call, including your "nails on the chalkboard" addition, and get position reports from the others. It's like they miraculously found the PTT. Sorry, but it works.

The admonition against the call "Any traffic please advise" was added to the AIM in the last year or so, I believe.

It came about partially because of the very small number of frequencies available for CTAF at airports. The most frequent use of that phrase occurs when the pilot is ten miles from destination and at several thousand feet above the airport. Which means that that transmission also hits a bunch of other airports, which use the same CTAF.

At very busy non towered airports, one need only wait for a moment or two, as Whee noted, till you hear someone talking on the radio.

But, the PRIMARY reason this is so important is that the responsibility is on EVERY pilot to see and avoid. That is the primary means that we have to avoid mid airs in the pattern. Flying standard traffic patterns, using standard phraseology when announcing in a radio equipped plane, and REALLY keeping one's head on a swivel in any airplane is all we've got to keep us safe in the pattern at these places.

UND used to use this phraseology ALL the time around here. I'd be in the pattern and hear someone come on and announce their position and "any traffic please advise", followed by three or four responses, and immediately, someone else would announce thier position and "any traffic please advise" etc. When you are trying to teach students to use the radio, to fly in the pattern, etc, that sort of nonsense gets pretty ridiculous, and does not in any way advance safety.

I tell students to announce their position at about five miles out, with intentions. Then announce again at 2 miles, then when entering the pattern. In most cases, a pilot announcing that they are entering the pattern will prompt most folks IN the pattern to respond with their location. But if there's a nordo airplane around, it's up to our EYES to see and avoid, not the microphone.

MTV

Granted you don't use it on every call into the pattern, but if it's been 2 or 3 minutes and ATC has previsously advised you of the traffic before you get there, it's a good use of the radio waves IMHO. I only have my students use this when it's all quiet on the radio. I cannot speak for the other pilots; I am not their flight instructor.

More importantly, use the airport identifier for BOTH the beginning and the end of the transmission. Y'all should practice that little gem. Right, Whee?

where exactly in the AIM does it specifically state not to use that phaseology?

Begining with the 2007 AIM it is in section 4-1-9(g):

“Self-announce is a procedure whereby pilots broadcast their position or intended flight activity or ground operation on the designated CTAF . . . Pilots stating ‘Traffic in the area please advise’ is not a recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition.”

Whee, I'm with you on calls without the location at the end. There are many times when in the Nampa/Caldwell area I've had to ask which airport a position report was made from.

blackrock wrote:Begining with the 2007 AIM it is in section 4-1-9(g)

Thanks for the clarification.

I still call BS on this one - radio discipline is what professionals practice when trying to get a call into LA Center without pissing them off, not when you're flying into any of a number of non-towered fields with an entire spectrum of pattern participants marking all levels of proficiency and proactive comm. Sure there'll be folks without radios, it goes without saying that a vigilant scan for traffic is your first line of defense. And I'm not advocating pimping for updates with every call, but I'll certainly resort to plain english and push for the info I want if the situation warrants it.

I hear alot of "what's the active?" calls, usually right after someone has announced downwind for 34 or whatever-- sometimes even jammed in between two radio calls from the pattern! Why can't people just listen? Unless of course it's a last minute freq change from ATC. Fairly harmless but definitely annoying, esp on a busy freq.

Eric

My favorite is a bizjet that calls "full stop" left final, 28 Truckee.....................................I usually follow up with an "oh-keee doh-key

I have noticed that here in SE AK the trend goes something like "anybody on approach at (airport name)" before taxiing out, unless you are in JNU where there's a tower or KTN where Flight Service is on the field. Pretty handy phrase when the vis. is not so good, as we sometimes have around here. Some just announce intentions. I guess either way works, really nothing to get in a twist about.

gb

The POINT is that one should really LISTEN up for maybe a couple minutes BEFORE looking for information.

That's the beef, really. Again, you hear it all the time, one after another making the same dumb call, and they'd have had all the information they needed if they'd just have LISTENED on the frequency for a minute or two.

This was put in the AIM for good reason. Try operating at a really busy uncontrolled airport a lot and you'll see what I mean. Just going in and out once a day doesn't really expose you to some of the lunacy that goes on in these patterns.

BUT, here's a great idea, which I learned years ago at Santa Paula airport--a REALLY busy uncontrolled field:

Instead of using your tail number on every call, try using the type and primary color of your airplane. For example, "red and white Cub on left downwind" makes a lot more sense for the rest of us than "Piper 1234A on left downwind", especially if there's a blue and white Meridian in the pattern as well.

I try to encourage students to use this procedure at non towered airports. It really does help others figure out who's talking, and where they are relative to other a/c in the pattern.

Give it a try.

MTV

So then this is really more a discussion about situational awareness than comm. Rote procedure is appropriate to many aspects of aviation, but standard comm flow may not always work. Get the feeling someone in the pattern would be better served by knowing your aircraft type and color, use that. Not sure where the guy is who was on the 45 entry to the left downwind, ask him.

Like MTV said, listen first. Then learn how to say it simply: Supercub XXX 5 miles out, landing 12. Supercub left downwind, 12. Supercub left base, 12. Supercub short final, 12. It's not hard to listen, then self-announce. In between your calls, listen for other calls. Get the picture in your mind where others are, and always be aware of NORDOs and those who aren't sure where they are.

If you're uncomfortable making radio calls, go to the airport with a handheld and sit and listen for an hour or so. Repeat what folks are saying until you become comfortable and proficient. I learned at a nontowered airport, and when I moved to a towered airport it was shaky for awhile calling in to the tower, but it improved with practice.

It's not only your life and your plane that's at risk, it's mine too, so I'd appreciate it if you listen up and fly right! Thanks!

ASW.