qmdv wrote:

m7flyer wrote:Tim,

I flew over your place on Sat and couldn't find it so you are safe for now.
Of course I was at 6500 and flying in a straight line, but I looked.

Dave

I can see it. 10 O-Clock low.

Tim

I believe we flew over your strip on the way from Eureka to Crater Lake back in August of 07. I also believe we saw an UAV flying low somewhere in your vicinity as we were headed north.
HC

Not a bad place to live as long as you have to live in California. As pretty as any in the lower 48.

Tim

180Marty wrote:I carry an umbrella policy on all the land that I rent and own. This is supposed to cover me from a hunter,without permission, getting hurt and suing me. Would it cover airplanes? It doesn't cost very much for this kind of policy--- I think a couple of hundred $$$$ for 600 acres.

There are not any umbrella policies that I know of that will cover aviation risks...they specifically exclude aviation risks.

lowflybye wrote:

180Marty wrote:I carry an umbrella policy on all the land that I rent and own. This is supposed to cover me from a hunter,without permission, getting hurt and suing me. Would it cover airplanes? It doesn't cost very much for this kind of policy--- I think a couple of hundred $$$$ for 600 acres.

There are not any umbrella policies that I know of that will cover aviation risks...they specifically exclude aviation risks.

I agree. Our umbrella policy specifically excludes aviation related risks.

The easiest thing to do is purchase a $1,000,000 premises liability policy for your strip. Do not worry about getting coverage for hangar keepers unless you have another persons aircraft in your care, custody or control (invited guests keeping aircraft at your place) and leave the Products & Completed Operations alone as well unless you are working on other peoples equipment or selling a product. These are the expensive coverages compared to premises. A $1,000,000 premises policy can be had for less than $2,000 per year in most cases and will defend you in the event of a lawsuit whether or not it was an invited guest or a trespasser...you can be sued by either one no matter whether you have a "private", "restricted", or X marked runway. As was mentioned in an earlier post an invited guest that damages their aircraft on your place may not suit you, but their insurance company may subrogate to recover their loss.

There are some valid points on this post thusfar, but keep in mind that a runway (no matter how it is marked) can be considered an "attractive nuisance" just like a pool or trampoline and therefore the owner can be held responsible for the losses even on a private - prior permission required airstrip.

Do what you can to limit your liability and insure for the lawsuit, or roll the dice and go uninsured. It is just part of owning your own airstrip. Bottom line, if you make it strip that is safe enough for you to land on, chances are that someone else will try to land there at some point and time.

I just renewed my $1,000,000 liability policy Friday. It cost $1,400. jg

hey tim, whose to say it's an airstrip. just a mowed field. where i fly from the owner says "no way is anyone to land here as this is private property" and so we all land there anyway. if anything were to happen then the pilot was at fault as the owner did not know anything nor was any one invited to the property. as long as he did not give permission nor encourge pilots to "use his property for their use" he feels he's covered. and to be truthfull, he really doesn't give a ---- anyway. john

I talked to my Farm Bureau insurance agent today about my different policies and brought up this subject. He is going to do more checking but said he thinks that if someone lands in my field and has a problem, it's their's--not mine.

180Marty wrote:I talked to my Farm Bureau insurance agent today about my different policies and brought up this subject. He is going to do more checking but said he thinks that if someone lands in my field and has a problem, it's their's--not mine.

Did you ask if the FB would defend you in court and thaen pay up if they lost?

Tim

I will see what he finds out. He thinks it would be hard for me to be negligent if I'm not piloting the plane.

I can get one of these and not alert the folks that it is a lnding strip

http://www.aboveitallkites.com/merch/li ... socks.fish

Tim

Yeah, Those have more character than an old windsock.

Just for fun, can someone find an accident report on a landing accident that does not fault the pilot for the accident? It seems like they all end with "the failure of the pilot to....."

You would think that that fact in itself would help the landowner.

180Marty wrote:I talked to my Farm Bureau insurance agent today about my different policies and brought up this subject. He is going to do more checking but said he thinks that if someone lands in my field and has a problem, it's their's--not mine.

You may want to talk with an Aviation insurance company if you want to find out about aviation based coverages...all other types of insurance specifically exclude aviation risks for a reason.

His logic does not make since even for non aviation policies...if a kid drowns in your pool while swimming without your permission you better be ready for the lawsuit.

180Marty wrote:I will see what he finds out. He thinks it would be hard for me to be negligent if I'm not piloting the plane.

Do you have any unmarked hazards on your strip that could cause damage to an otherwise uneventful landing? Chuckholes? Rocks? Animals?

You would have to be found negligent in some way to be held liable, but the question is not whether or not you are negligent, the question is whether you want to front the cost to prove you were not negligent, or let the insurance take care of it for you. You are basically purchasing cheap legal defense provided by Aviation Lawyers who handle these type of cases for a living...and if the court still deems you liable the insurance will pay the amount awarded by the court up to the policy limit.

The meaning of Negligence as defined by the legal system is pretty broad so be careful assuming you would not be found negligent.

lancef53 wrote:Just for fun, can someone find an accident report on a landing accident that does not fault the pilot for the accident? It seems like they all end with "the failure of the pilot to....."

You would think that that fact in itself would help the landowner.

Here you go...this happened to one of our clients before they became one of our clients. The FAA still deemed it pilot error, but the court system found negligence on the land owners part as well so they were forced to defend themselves and pay the judgement.

An airport premises liability policy was available to cover this type of relatively low airport exposure for less than $5,000 annual premium. The policy would have provided a legal defense for the airport owners and would have paid settlements or awards on their behalf up to the policy limit of $1,000,000. Higher limits of liability were also available for additional premium.


The pilot of a Beechcraft Baron and three family member passengers were attempting to land at a private airport owned and operated by a golf resort. The pilot had reserved a rental house at the resort community and was flying in for a vacation stay. The Baron’s arrival was approximately thirty minutes before sunset and the sun was low on the horizon. The runway was paved, twenty-five feet wide and approximately 2,800 feet in length. The relatively short runway length and brisk late afternoon sea breeze dictated that the pilot land on the runway directly into the setting sun. The passenger sitting in the rear, forward facing seat later stated that the sun’s glare through the windshield while on final approach to the runway was very bright and the pilot complained that he was having difficulty seeing the runway.

After touchdown, approximately two thirds of the way down the runway, the aircraft’s right wing struck a tractor and mowing machine that had been temporarily parked next to the runway. The witness said that the aircraft was on the runway’s paved surface, but near the right side. It was estimated that the aircraft hit the tractor while traveling about 50-60 knots. After the collision, the aircraft left the runway and came to a stop just behind the tractor and caught fire. The pilot and front seat passenger were killed in the fire. The rear seat passengers escaped through the rear aircraft door. The driver of the tractor was away from his machine at the time of the accident and was not injured.

The surviving family members filed suit against the owners of the private resort airport alleging that the resort had created a hazardous situation by having the mowing equipment parked too close to the runway and had failed to adequately warn the pilot that such hazards might exist. The airport owners responded to the suit claiming that it was solely the pilot’s responsibility to see and avoid obstacles. The airport owners further claimed that the pilot had not obtained permission to land at the private facility, and had he done so, would have been advised that his use of the airport was at his own risk.

In this case, the golf resort did not carry airport liability insurance. The resort’s commercial general liability policy specifically EXCLUDED losses related to aircraft and airport operations. It was the resort’s policy to fax a “hold harmless” agreement to any aircraft owner that contacted them for permission to use the facility’s airport. The agreement required the pilot’s signature and provided some basic information about the airport facilities. The accident pilot did not contact the resort to obtain permission, but according to members of his family, had landed at the resort on many other occasions. The resort did not have a hold harmless agreement with the accident pilot on file.

Because the resort did not insure the airport, they were forced to defend the suit brought by the injured family and pay a settlement without coverage. The total sums paid by the airport owners approached $750,000 for bodily injury and property damage plus legal fees.

One of my counterparts here at the office (who also has a strip at his home) wrote a magazine article on this topic that may be of interest...here is the link.

http://www.aviationinsurance.com/articles/PrivateAirportRiskMngmnt_Spring07.pdf

lowflybye, You're probably right but in the last week or so a couple of medical helicopters have crashed. Can the landowner be sued because the helicopter crash landed on his property?

180Marty wrote:lowflybye, You're probably right but in the last week or so a couple of medical helicopters have crashed. Can the landowner be sued because the helicopter crash landed on his property?

No...they were not intending to land at a location that is designed for such activities...the same would apply if an airplane just randomly tried to land in your cow pasture whether it be intentional or emergency.

If you have an area designated for landing, whether it be private or open for others to use, listed or unlisted, then you pick up some liability.

Seems we are back to a nice level cow pasture again

Yup...

Like I said in the first post, get a big backhoe.

Gump