Come across this from another friend on FB.

This link is from the Washington Post:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/tower-at-reagan-national-goes-silent-as-planes-attempt-to-land/2011/03/23/AB9aslKB_story.html

Although it was not a good thing that happened, I really don't think that the FAA needs to go on a witch hunt over this. The pilots simply flipped the switch back over to approach, talked to atc, coordinated with other arriving traffic, most likely made some CTAF calls to confirm no conflicting ground activity and so on.

We're overworked, they're overworked. Fatigue is a factor.

I think this backs the FAA into a corner concerning short-staffing of ATC facilities. Additionally, it shines some more light on pilot staffing and scheduling models (particularly at the regionals).

What a fantastic opportunity to buzz the tower!

Nosedragger wrote:What a fantastic opportunity to buzz the tower!

that would have woke the guy up... Of course the News media is waaaay over the top on this.. yeah the guy should get some sort of disciplinary action but here we go with the search of all other cities with only one guy on duty in the tower..and news anchors trying to scare the shit out of everybody..surprised they don't go ape over my airport which has No one on duty in the tower after 10 PM...

"The pilots had to land the planes by themselves...." is what I heard on the radio today.

Wow, how do I ever manage to consistently land my plane without the firm, guiding hand of ATC?

Those guys did what pilots do, they flew their airplanes. No big deal.

My favorite is when they come to work when I'm on final. " Podunk tower now open, Altimeter blah, blah, Aircraft calling Podunk say position...... "Exiting alpha"

Nosedragger wrote:My favorite is when they come to work when I'm on final. " Podunk tower now open, Altimeter blah, blah, Aircraft calling Podunk say position...... "Exiting alpha"

That's pretty good

geez , see and avoid... what a concept...

FAA suspends Washington air traffic controller for sleeping on the job


Experts say sleep deprivation is common for air traffic controllers: The NTSB says fatigued air traffic controllers have played a role in a handful of airline incidents over the past decade, including a fatal crash in Lexington, Ky., in 2006. "Air traffic controllers have notoriously difficult schedules that are prone to inducing profound levels of impairment associated with sleep deficiency," says Chuck Czeisler, a sleep research specialist at Harvard University Medical School. The National Air Traffic Controllers Association has long advocated keeping two controllers in the tower, even on slow overnight shifts. "One-person shifts are unsafe, period," says NATCA President Paul Rinaldi

How many hours would a night ATC alone work??

If they play all day and can't stay awake for their night shift. FIND A NEW JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

iceman wrote:geez , see and avoid... what a concept...

Not for Part 121 flights. Maybe ok for guys like us out goofing off, but a pax hauler full of your family members deserves all that good IFR stuff like separation, sequencing, etc. Nevertheless, I would hope that a controlled area full of heavy metal who loses the controller in VMC can pull it together and work it out themselves over the CTAF like we would at a busy untowered airport.

Up until last year, they could have taken their kids in to "help out", but no more.

RobBurson wrote:FAA suspends Washington air traffic controller for sleeping on the job


Experts say sleep deprivation is common for air traffic controllers: The NTSB says fatigued air traffic controllers have played a role in a handful of airline incidents over the past decade, including a fatal crash in Lexington, Ky., in 2006. "Air traffic controllers have notoriously difficult schedules that are prone to inducing profound levels of impairment associated with sleep deficiency," says Chuck Czeisler, a sleep research specialist at Harvard University Medical School. The National Air Traffic Controllers Association has long advocated keeping two controllers in the tower, even on slow overnight shifts. "One-person shifts are unsafe, period," says NATCA President Paul Rinaldi

How many hours would a night ATC alone work??

If they play all day and can't stay awake for their night shift. FIND A NEW JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am right next to Rob on this... The guy needs to spend some time in the unemployment line......... The SOB was probably bringing down $100,000 + a year....

And it was in DC... Most of us law abiding pilots cannot get within 50 miles of the place without a fighter escort. This must make the congress critters sleep real good at night now .

Ben.

Stol wrote:

RobBurson wrote:FAA suspends Washington air traffic controller for sleeping on the job


Experts say sleep deprivation is common for air traffic controllers: The NTSB says fatigued air traffic controllers have played a role in a handful of airline incidents over the past decade, including a fatal crash in Lexington, Ky., in 2006. "Air traffic controllers have notoriously difficult schedules that are prone to inducing profound levels of impairment associated with sleep deficiency," says Chuck Czeisler, a sleep research specialist at Harvard University Medical School. The National Air Traffic Controllers Association has long advocated keeping two controllers in the tower, even on slow overnight shifts. "One-person shifts are unsafe, period," says NATCA President Paul Rinaldi

How many hours would a night ATC alone work??

If they play all day and can't stay awake for their night shift. FIND A NEW JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am right next to Rob on this... The guy needs to spend some time in the unemployment line......... The SOB was probably bringing down $100,000 + a year....

And it was in DC... Most of us law abiding pilots cannot get within 50 miles of the place without a fighter escort. This must make the congress critters sleep real good at night now .

Ben.

You guys need to talk to an air traffic controller about the shifts that they work. Unless something has changed in the last few years (and from that news article, I'm guessing it hasn't) controllers are CONSTANTLY changing shifts. There is no two weeks on days, then two weeks on nights, etc. They are all over the place on shifts. In other words, the agency forces them into a condition of sleep deprivation, sets them up, then puts ONE person in WASHINGTON REAGAN airport on night shift.

Why would ANYone be surprised that this happened? And, of course the Administrator has to "protect the flying public" by suspending the guy. Course, if he had a drug problem, they'd put him in a program.....

The FAA needs to take ATC seriously. And, recently, I don't believe they have. Lots of folks have been hung way out there. Good folks.


MTV

Stol wrote:

RobBurson wrote:FAA suspends Washington air traffic controller for sleeping on the job


Experts say sleep deprivation is common for air traffic controllers: The NTSB says fatigued air traffic controllers have played a role in a handful of airline incidents over the past decade, including a fatal crash in Lexington, Ky., in 2006. "Air traffic controllers have notoriously difficult schedules that are prone to inducing profound levels of impairment associated with sleep deficiency," says Chuck Czeisler, a sleep research specialist at Harvard University Medical School. The National Air Traffic Controllers Association has long advocated keeping two controllers in the tower, even on slow overnight shifts. "One-person shifts are unsafe, period," says NATCA President Paul Rinaldi

How many hours would a night ATC alone work??

If they play all day and can't stay awake for their night shift. FIND A NEW JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am right next to Rob on this... The guy needs to spend some time in the unemployment line......... The SOB was probably bringing down $100,000 + a year....

And it was in DC... Most of us law abiding pilots cannot get within 50 miles of the place without a fighter escort. This must make the congress critters sleep real good at night now .

Ben.

You guys need to talk to an air traffic controller about the shifts that they work. Unless something has changed in the last few years (and from that news article, I'm guessing it hasn't) controllers are CONSTANTLY changing shifts. There is no two weeks on days, then two weeks on nights, etc. They are all over the place on shifts. In other words, the agency forces them into a condition of sleep deprivation, sets them up, then puts ONE person in WASHINGTON REAGAN airport on night shift.

Why would ANYone be surprised that this happened? And, of course the Administrator has to "protect the flying public" by suspending the guy. Course, if he had a drug problem, they'd put him in a program.....

The FAA needs to take ATC seriously. And, recently, I don't believe they have. Lots of folks have been hung way out there. Good folks.


MTV

True. I have a good friend who works at NorCal Approach. He works 3 days on one shift, 3 days on the next, and the next. Over and over. He hates it and is now transferring to Oakland Tower where he'll be a supervisor and at least won't have to work any more mid shifts.

I checked Flight Aware yesterday, Thursday night KDCA had 5 arrivals and 4 departures between midnight and 6AM. All but one were either before 1AM or after 5. There are plenty of tower controlled airports around the country that close at 8,9 10PM or whatever and still have a part 121 operation or two after the tower closes. Somehow I don't think the taxpayers are getting their monies worth out of a 24 hour tower at Reagan.

121 carrier ARE allowed to operate out of "uncontrolled airports". Our 121 ops specs have a set procedure to operate in/out of both non-tower and closed tower fields, and I have done so several times over the years. As an example, KSJC tower closes at 2300 and, if our last flight in is running late we coordinate with NorCal approach and (gasp!) land without anyone in the tower. I currently fly A320s for one of the major carriers (a C-170A for real flying).

Was there an issue with the Reagan tower not responding? Yep. Should it be looked into? Yep. Does there need to be disciplinary action? Possibly. Someone fired? Doubtful. Is the media going WAY over the top and blowing this COMPLETELY out of proportion?

Cowboy wrote:Is the media going WAY over the top and blowing this COMPLETELY out of proportion?

I just heard a media comment that the pilots who were forced to land on their own were "as cool as Sully Sullenberger." Are they really comparing this with landing dead stick in the Hudson?! That's pretty inflammatory and sensational. Absurd how blown out of proportion this is in the media.

Brett

Yes,

The media is ignorant and sensationalizing this. Geeze ...when I started my career we served 23 airports that didn't even have a control tower and there was no radar coverage below 10,000 feet throughout much of the nation. Worked just fine operating DC-9 jets. Even to this day my former airline operates into Steamboat Springs which has no tower at all. Been in and out of there with over 200 passengers in the back many times.... no problem at all. As mentioned here there are a number of airports whose tower closes during night hours and the airlines come and go without incident.

I have all the respect in the world for ATC. But remember folks, in reality they "coordinate" not "control" traffic. I always love it when the media says "ATC ordered the aircraft to an alternate airport" or "ATC landed the aircraft safely at such and such." Sure 99.9999999% of he time the pilot do exactly as directed by ATC. That is the only way it can work in congested areas. But when the chips are down.....it is still the PIC who calls the shots. Of course he/she will be required to justify their deviation as is a controller who deviates from standard proceedures. Bottom line...it's the pilots who have their ass on the line. As the old saying goes...."the farthest that a controller can fall is out of their chair." Years ago I heard my captain respond to an overbearing controller...."Sir...am I up here because you are down there?" "Or are you down there because I am up here?" The media has got it backward anymore.

I don't want to see the guy at Reagan get fired. Diciplined yes. Fired no. Many an airline pilot has fallen asleep enroute. Some have even gone off the coast of California for a couple hundred miles before being awakened by ATC....who saved their butts.

And let's be honest here. The night shift of single controllers at quiet airports have been "sleeping shifts" for ages. The controller expects to be awakened by the radio and then respond. When I was a young airman the night shift controller at my airport kept a cot in the tower. Sometimes his girlfriend kept him occupied there. Sometimes he just sacked out.

When I was an airmail pilot my next to last stop was at 2:00 a.m. into a quite, single controller airport. I'd call approach and recieve a sleepy response. "601-K...cleared for the approach, cleared to land, cleared to the ramp, cleared for take off....see ya in the morning." ZZZZZZZ.., After unloading the mail I'd take off VFR most always for the 30 mile hop to my home base.

Just like in the hospital operating room, in the corporate board room, in the White House,in the Pentagon, in the cockpit, in the control tower.......folks would be suprised!

Fly safe.

Bob

Cody, WY (KCOD) has commercial flights in and out of that airport with NO control tower.

But yeah, some of the big media outlets do take it to the next level. Los Angeles news outlets are among the worse. They'll make a huge deal about a cat stuck in a tree. I mean, they'll have their helicopter hover overhead for hours with live feed, news crew on the ground underneath the fire fighters ladder asking the firefighter how he feels about saving this cat's life. Then the news crew will interview anybody that wants to get on TV. Anyway....