Backcountry Pilot • Reagan Tower, Can You Hear Me?.......... Hello!!

Reagan Tower, Can You Hear Me?.......... Hello!!

Near misses, close calls, and lessons learned the hard way. Share with others so that they might avoid the same mistakes.
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Re: Reagan Tower, Can You Hear Me?.......... Hello!!

Good to see all the different points of view on this topic. BUT.... In any job I have ever had, sleeping on the job would be a legitimate reason for me to get FIRED,,, right on the spot, No questions asked, end of story. The guy who drives the Yamaha transporter will die if he falls asleep on the job, the guys on here who fly for a living will die if they fall asleep on the job, an ICU nurse falls asleep on the job and the patient dies. Last report I have heard was this controller was a 'senior' member of the ranks, making $132,400 plus bennies, so figure 200,000 a year..... I say let the SOB draw food stamps for a few years while they sleep in a cardboard box on some sidewalk.

So, for the sake of a good healthy debate lets look at it this way. I am a contractor, to even the score and add parity with the same wage scale as the controller I will charge you 100.00 an hour for my services, I will work for you on the overnight shift. I sleep on the job, if you catch me you give me a chewwing out and I go back to work for you, till you catch me sleeping again, rinse and repeat........ Oh yeah,,, you still have to pay me for the times I sleep too. If you are paying me out of your personal funds I am willing to bet you FIRE me on my first offence. If you don't feel that way I might mention I am available to do some contracting work so feel free to contact me so I can get some easy money and sleep too. [-o< [-o< :lol: And some people wonder why the government is 14.3 TRILLION in debt.

Ben ' wanting to get paid to sleep' Haas.

Off my soap box now.......... [-o< [-o< [-X
Stol offline
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Re: Reagan Tower, Can You Hear Me?.......... Hello!!

z3skybolt wrote:
Just like in the hospital operating room, in the corporate board room, in the White House,in the Pentagon, in the cockpit, in the control tower.......folks would be suprised!

Fly safe.

Bob


Don't forget about them big 80K pound semi rigs rolling up and down our interstates and highways!! Ever notice those big tire tracks that go off into in the median and back onto the road along the interstates??

Of the 1.5 million miles I've driven my rigs, I've seen four semi's off the road. One was in the center median parked with the driver asleep resting his head on the steering wheel. Two were off the right shoulder in the trees and one was east of Barstow, CA parked up on the rocks off the right shoulder (I have a picture I'll have to find).

While I'm on subject. And this is a true story.
Some years ago, we had to have one of our race transporters from one event to the other in less than a few days cross country. So we hired team drivers from another one of our transportation company's to get our rig from point A to Point B quickly.

Well, when the rig got to point B, the crew at the track noticed chunks of grass underneath many area's of the trailer (we have those low clearance furniture type trailers). Neither driver would admit to anything. I was called and asked about it later, and I told my boss that more than likely one of the drivers fell asleep and ran the rig threw a grassy median (just like those tire tracks I mentioned above).
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Re: Reagan Tower, Can You Hear Me?.......... Hello!!

Stol wrote:The guy who drives the Yamaha transporter will die if he falls asleep on the job,


Two main things my big boss reminds me about.

Time sheet and logs don't match........ "Your Fired!!!"

Fall asleep behind the wheel of our rig........ "Your Fired!!!"

At a time when 2nd class trucking jobs are replacing good paying trucking jobs, I'm not about to F this one up.
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Re: Reagan Tower, Can You Hear Me?.......... Hello!!

Maybe there should be hours of service rules for controllers just like 121 pilots, truck drivers & train crews have?
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Re: Reagan Tower, Can You Hear Me?.......... Hello!!

If there is one controller NOT likely to doze off, it would be this guy, NOW that he got busted, I say whack his weenie financially a bit (fine) for the screwup and put him back to work.

Every now and then the subject of closing the tower at KPIH (Pocatello) comes up, and it is always amusing to see the city powers that be (who know nothing of aviation) fall back on the safety issue. It more then anything would be a huge blow to the local muni ego to not have a control tower, we sure don't need one for the traffic here! As far as I'm concerned they could take the controllers here and put 'em in the tower with old sleepyhead and a couple of cattle prods, it'd be a much better use of fed funds.
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Re: Reagan Tower, Can You Hear Me?.......... Hello!!

Glidergeek wrote:Maybe there should be hours of service rules for controllers just like 121 pilots, truck drivers & train crews have?


They do have work rules but they are so short staffed they quite often push them to the limit. I think overtime is authorized but I'm not sure of the rules on that.
At my home airport, SBP, the tower is open 0600-2000 365 days a year. In actuality the early duty controller shows up at 0530 to do comm checks etc. and the last one out the door usually doesn't leave until 2030. With consideration to vacation, sick days, having 2 on duty most of the time how many controllers do you think they have on the payroll?


5.
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Re: Reagan Tower, Can You Hear Me?.......... Hello!!

Long time ago, I had two sick kids up all night. The next day I fell asleep under a house. I am a plumber. Nobody got hurt. Didn't even make the news. :D

Tim
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Re: Reagan Tower, Can You Hear Me?.......... Hello!!

qmdv wrote:Long time ago, I had two sick kids up all night. The next day I fell asleep under a house. I am a plumber. Nobody got hurt. Didn't even make the news. :D

Tim


Ya but if you were drunk and pissed your pants while sleeping under there and somebody saw you down there you'd be all over you tube now. [-X
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Re: Reagan Tower, Can You Hear Me?.......... Hello!!

qmdv wrote:Long time ago, I had two sick kids up all night. The next day I fell asleep under a house. I am a plumber. Nobody got hurt. Didn't even make the news. :D

Tim


Ok,, Please install the lie detector wires now....................

Did you bill the homeowner for the time you were sleeping ??? :roll: :roll: #-o [-o<
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Re: Reagan Tower, Can You Hear Me?.......... Hello!!

I was a grooming supervisor at a ski resort in the Sierras for about ten years. The norm was to come in at 4pm and work all night, leaving at 6am. We would usually all go have breakfast together and be to bed by 8am, wake up around 2-3, do some chores and then go to work. When it snowed, management would turn us around as we came to work, they wanted us to go home and come back in around 9pm and then work until 11am. The carnage caused by sleep deprived operators in giant machinery can't be described without using the word cluster. after you've just prepared for your shift, you don't even get tired until it's time to go to work. By the time patrollers showed up for avalanche control, we'd usually have been awake for 16 hours with 3-4 to go. Ski Resort managers don't listen and since I was the snowcat boss and the big bosses were sound asleep, I started having everyone take turns sleeping in their cats until about 5am, then we'd rush around tilling everything out before the skiers showed up. The hill looked great, the managers felt good about themselves and we were usually fresh enough to make a few runs after our shift. The key to catnapping in the tower would be to sleep with your headset on.

Short Rabbit trail: I knew a water truck driver that used to catch a snooze while refilling the truck with a honda pump (25min. load time). He would sleep on top of the tank with his arm down the hatch, the water would touch his fingers 18" from being full and he'd awake and go back to work. It worked flawlessly until the one time he left the dump valve open and he woke up when the truck washed itself into the pond!
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Re: Reagan Tower, Can You Hear Me?.......... Hello!!

Nosedragger wrote:
Short Rabbit trail: I knew a water truck driver that used to catch a snooze while refilling the truck with a honda pump (25min. load time). He would sleep on top of the tank with his arm down the hatch, the water would touch his fingers 18" from being full and he'd awake and go back to work. It worked flawlessly until the one time he left the dump valve open and he woke up when the truck washed itself into the pond!


I little more off topic ( [-X on me :oops: )
Back when I was driving a Motocross transporter, I got done washing the rig in a hotel parking lot and proceeded to fill up the big 375 gallon water tanks on my tractor. The water pressure was very slow. So I decided to go up to my room to take care of a situation and lie down on the bed for a few minutes.

Well, during a nice little nap. The phone rings and it was the front desk all concerned about the liquid dripping from my tractor. I told them it was just water. The hotel was 2 seconds from calling the fire department for a diesel hazmat spill :oops: :oops:
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Re: Reagan Tower, Can You Hear Me?.......... Hello!!

Stol wrote:
qmdv wrote:Long time ago, I had two sick kids up all night. The next day I fell asleep under a house. I am a plumber. Nobody got hurt. Didn't even make the news. :D

Tim


Ok,, Please install the lie detector wires now....................

Did you bill the homeowner for the time you were sleeping ??? :roll: :roll: #-o [-o<


Cannot remember for sure. If it were a gov employee I would have billed them.

I am sure MTV never dosed off while at the WLR9 [-X

Tim
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Re: Reagan Tower, Can You Hear Me?.......... Hello!!

I had the best job. I got paid to sleep. Not as much as a plumber but good just the same. :P

Cheers
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Re: Reagan Tower, Can You Hear Me?.......... Hello!!

RobBurson wrote:I had the best job. I got paid to sleep. Not as much as a plumber but good just the same. :P

Cheers

Fireman?
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Re: Reagan Tower, Can You Hear Me?.......... Hello!!

Rob,
I just got home from being paid to sleep, so I thought. Last nights community fun must have been dialing 911 for lame reasons. So I paid em back with lots of siren noise.
Getting paid to sleep sounds great on the surface, but now instead of taking care of the home projects, I'm sitting here with one eye open checkin in on you guys before taking the mid-morning nap.
SIX MORE YEARS!
Tom
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Re: Reagan Tower, Can You Hear Me?.......... Hello!!

Getting Them Back Down to Earth (WSJ letters 3/30/11)

As a former captain and supervisory pilot for American Airlines with around 23,000 hours of flying time, I completely disagree with Loretta Alkalay, "a former top lawyer" for the Federal Aviation Administration's Eastern region, when she says that, "it was clearly inappropriate [for two jetliners] to land without clearance" at Reagan National Airport after the lone air-traffic controller on duty fell asleep ("Decisions by Pilots to Land Criticized," U.S. News, March 28).

Ms. Alkalay doesn't have a clue about the responsibilities of command that are on an airline captain's shoulders. The captains who took command and landed their aircraft without having a manned tower facility did exactly the right thing and should be highly commended for making the right decision.

Perhaps Ms. Alkalay should research placing a lawyer in the jump seat of every airline flight segment in the future so we can let the lawyers make the decisions instead of the captains.

George C. Wells

Hendersonville, N.C.


Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood wants to hire baby sitters for scores of control towers manned by a lone occupant during off-hours because one controller fell asleep ("Controller's Silence Draws Safety Review," U.S. News, March 24).

Instead, how about the cheaper solution of firing the one who fell asleep. Also, install a fire-alarm bell in control towers. If airline pilots get no answer, they could call a number that would blast the sleeper into alertness.

John Lenkey III

Pittsburgh
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Re: Reagan Tower, Can You Hear Me?.......... Hello!!

Perhaps Ms. Alkalay should research placing a lawyer in the jump seat of every airline flight segment in the future so we can let the lawyers make the decisions instead of the captains.

Better idea, let's load a boat full of lawyers up and do some torpedo practice :D Maybe a few politicians too :roll:
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Re: Reagan Tower, Can You Hear Me?.......... Hello!!

Coming from someone that does a lot of back-side-of-the-clock flying, another reason why there are two of us up front.
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Re: Reagan Tower, Can You Hear Me?.......... Hello!!

FAA vows to fire a second sleeping air traffic controller
The FAA says it will fire an air traffic controller in Knoxville, Tenn., for intentionally taking a five-hour nap while on the job. Seven planes landed safely while the controller slept during the midnight shift on Feb. 19. "The FAA will not tolerate this type of unprofessional and inappropriate behavior," the agency said in a statement, though a union official said staffing levels may be part of the problem.

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/stor ... 45843484/1

The Federal Aviation Administration said the unnamed controller slept for five hours intentionally during the midnight shift on Feb. 19 in Knoxville, Tenn.

It's the second incident in as many months that an FAA controller fell asleep during a midnight shift. A supervisor working alone at Washington's Reagan National Airport fell asleep for at least 24 minutes shortly after midnight on March 23.

In the incident at McGhee Tyson Airport in Knoxville, a controller working in a radar room responsible for guiding planes in a roughly 50-mile radius around the airport was unresponsive for five hours, the FAA said.

Another controller working at the airport's tower was able to monitor the seven aircraft that flew into the airspace during that time, the agency said in a statement. All of the aircraft landed safely.

"The FAA will not tolerate this type of unprofessional and inappropriate behavior," the statement said.

The agency is conducting a nationwide review of staffing at air-traffic facilities during midnight shifts as a result of the recent incidents.

The National Air Traffic Controllers Association union is representing the unnamed controller in disciplinary proceedings, spokesman Doug Church said. The FAA said it is "taking steps to fire" the controller, but has not done so yet.

After the incident last month at Reagan National, the union demanded that additional controllers be added at towers where a single person worked on midnight shifts as a safety measure to limit the risks that a controller could fall asleep.

"Once again, we've got a midnight shift issue," Church said. "Those are very concerning to us. We believe that staffing always needs to be what's looked at, here and at other facilities."

Typically, air-traffic facilities are designed with enough flexibility that controllers in a tower can handle traffic far outside an airport. In most cases at small and midsize airports, controllers are trained to handle both landings and takeoffs as well as higher altitude traffic.

In the incident at Reagan National, a controller admitted to investigators at the National Transportation Safety Board that he had inadvertently fallen asleep. He is on paid leave while the agency investigates.

Two airliners landed at the airport without a landing clearance after their pilots were advised by another controller in a facility in nearby Virginia that they could touch down using rules for airports without towers.

Afterward, the FAA told controllers that they should offer pilots the chance to divert to another airport rather than land at a major commercial airport without a tower controller. The FAA also added a second controller on the midnight shift at the security sensitive airport, which is only a few miles from the White House and Congress.

The NTSB and the FAA are also investigating a separate incident in which a controller requested that a Southwest Airlines pilot fly close to a small private plane near Orlando on March 27.
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