Perhaps I'm getting too old... too old fashioned... too cautious. What ever happened to the quiet backcountry campsite with a handful of your buddies?

I was taught that one shouldn't "rush" anything in aviation... take one's time... make good decisions. Airspeed is life, make sure you have plenty of margin, stay coordinated, and don't f-around.

With the bad attention backcountry flying has been getting recently and on the heels of the 140 crash, something seems off... perhaps I'm just missing something???

Take the seven min and twenty seconds in the vid and give a think... Digest what is being said, and perhaps juxtapose it to what your mentors most likely tried to impart. "...you have to have a perfect take off, every time... A perfect landing, every time." No room for margins... I guess this is cool, but at what cost? A Go-Fund-Me page and a name stenciled in granite?

Anyway, I'm all for getting more folks into the air, especially over remote and austere environments, but perhaps we need to rethink how we as a community are charting this course?

Curious as to what others out there are thinking, cuz I'm a bit flummoxed.

I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but perhaps if we're not careful, this thing that we all love is going to be constrained in ways we wont like... not to mention I'm really sick of watching my insurance premiums rise every year, and am certainly tired of reading about crashes.

Hope everyone has a safe summer...

https://www.stolcross.com/

Ok, I watched the 7:20 video. Very cool strips to practice, but I’d give that a pass with the power lines lurking on several approaches and takeoffs.

I am about half way done with my Bearhawk build, and obviously I have been thinking about insurance, and the MayDay STOL crash did not help matters at all. Do I like watching the STOL competitions? Yep, it is fun. But building an experimental, being a low time pilot, I just don’t see myself being able to afford hull insurance. I will get liability and no motion ground insurance, but I will most likely be self insuring my hull.

My plane is primarily a tool to get me to the best fishing spots, second is to fly to strips in Utah and Idaho that are on either the FAA chart, the IAA chart or the UBCP charts with my buddies for fun. I am not putting big wheels on my plane, it will be the Desser 850’s that are on it now during the construction and then GY 26’s. I am not trying to land someplace no one else has ever landed, I am not trying to “name spots”. I could comfortably land the Rans S-21 I was flying in 400-450’, my BH will land much shorter than that. I will stick to strips 800’ or longer with the exception of one in Idaho that is 700-750’ long when the conditions are right.

The cost of insurance is just the one thing that is too expensive. I figure I built it, if need be I can fix it.

Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

People watch these YouTube videos and think they can do it too. Some can, some will never, regardless of instruction and practice.

There is no foam pit for airplanes.

This may not be popular opinion, but:

I'm not a fan of this STOL-cross concept. I like using my airplane to see beautiful things and to share that with those who are close to me. l enjoy camping in places where I don't have ATVs and dirtbikes kicking up dirt or drunk people shooting guns for target practice. If you've ever been camping in places that are easily reached within Alaska, then you know what I'm referring to. So, to get away from it all, sometimes it requires you to land on those short strips. I feel as if I'm doing everything I can to insure that my off-airport landings are as safe as they can be. Always checking out the runway 2-3 times, then again dragging the tires. Sometimes a few more times until I feel comfortable, knowing that I'm going to be able to get stopped in time. If I have any doubt, then I simply won't commit and move on.

Now, should my insurance go up because Mr. Johnny STOLcross runs into a powerline or has a mid-air collision during one of these STOL-cross events? Hell no. However, do I think the FAA should tell these people that they're not allowed to do these STOL-cross events? No, not at all, I think that's government overstepping. Let me be clear, I'm not saying that it shouldn't be regulated in some ways. Of course it should. I believe a solution to these issues we're seeing is to have separate types of insurances for aircrafts that are competing in these STOL / STOL drag / STOL-cross events. Where if an accident were to occur in one of those, it wouldn't affect our normal guy rates. I'd say the addition of some new endorsement types for this sort of thing may not be such a bad thing either.

The last thing I want to see is our ability to be insured for off-airport landings and our freedom to land where we please, for utility purposes, to be taken away. I think the fight we're looking at here in the next 5-15 years, could be much bigger than what we realize.

Sorry, was in a mood.

....

...

The increased interest in STOL has had both positive and negative impacts on us. The recognition of the free and safe energy of low ground effect has been positive. More powerful lightweight engines, seemingly positive, have negated the free energy and safety of staying in low ground effect until zoom reserve airspeed has developed. When I watched Dan Grider's video on the 140 crash, I was sure it was stall from too high pitch attitude on takeoff. I very much expect the next one will be. The recognition that deceleration on short final coming into ground effect is safer than landing too fast has been positive. Yet insufficient training in power/pitch deceleration is causal in this accident. Video provided and shared by others has helped me promote safe maneuvering flight techniques. Yet, video of foolishness has made insurance providers and agencies aware of foolishness.

I deeply regret all these fatalities and try very hard to be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem. My flying career was full of incidents and accidents which I survived using safe maneuvering flight techniques. And there was one other gem given me by my father early in life. "Jim, when boys are having a lot of fun, look around. Something is going to happen."

When boys are having a lot of fun, look around. Get that awareness going on. Think "why do that?"

https://youtu.be/GKGjeqHSy1A


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Enjoy it while you can . People ruin everything . Be respectful of your surroundings and always remember that the majority of the public hates airplanes . There seems to be a whole new breed of STOL clowns out there . Unfortunately just a matter of time before the rules become overbearing . ( think permits for going into the wilderness with your plane just like all the other permitted activities .) There is a video out there somewhere of a handful of STOL clowns just pounding Shearer airstrip landing and taking off both ways over and over making about as much noise in the wilderness as possible. Our flying freedoms won’t last much longer if this is the new normal.

Progression has limitations.

I’m with Greg here. “This is exactly what general aviation needs. I will help breathe new life into it” I could not disagree more. It risks creating even more resistance and bias against GA.

I think this kind of competition is no doubt enormous fun, and builds tremendous skills but it is EXTREMELY unforgiving. Definitely has its place but is it really even GA? I think more analogous to racing in the car world. It’s going to need to regulate itself if it grows with licensing and training and maybe the insurance companies will start to differentiate. My fear is that they will lump in all off airport activity with it.

I think Kevin has done an amazing job of promoting safety and training for his STOL Drag events. This motocross like thing and the Arkanstol are even more demanding.

It’s not for me, I’ll stick to 1.3 Vso.

This is not backcountry. This is a skate park. As long as it's on private land, it looks like fun. I see some bad and unnecessary techniques in that video - even if they are trying to land at all those technical strips. The moment this gets translated to public land then I think we have a big, big problem which will create access issues when the accidents start happening. It's already happening, I think.

That video looks like SF Bay Area, with a population of 10M. Not exactly middle of nowhere New Mexico or WY. Only a matter of time....

This happened over the weekend.

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/competitor-killed-in-stol-competition-crash/

It sounds like the accident happened during the regular STOL Competition and not during the STOL Drag.

Very Sad.

Well, it depends. If these things become "organized", they will likely go through a process of learning how to prevent accidents, which are going to be very likely in the type exercise pictured in the video.

Think Arkanstol.....basically the same thing, at a privately owned resort. Had an accident, and organization tightened a bit.

But, the 800 pound gorilla in this room is NOT aircraft insurance. It's EVENT insurance, and I'm betting that event insurance for something like this is going to be a wee bit tough to acquire.

Historical fact: The current Valdez STOL contest is not the original STOL contest in Alaska. The original took place at Gulkana, Alaska many years ago. It was a weekend event put on by the Gulkana/Glenallen Lions Club, and included a number of activities. At one point, the Lions was no longer able to acquire (or maybe just couldn't afford) liability insurance, and that event ended.

So, the question is: How many of these events carry event insurance? If someone gets hurt, whether it's an airplane accident or a spectator trips over something and breaks their neck, SOMEone is likely going to be looking for a payday. The event organizers had best understand that, and have their butts well covered. If not, they are only one lawsuit away from no more program, no more airplane, etc.

Aircraft insurance coverage often carries "conditions" which preclude coverage for participation in exhibitions, etc. Check your policy if you're going to play these games.

Now, leading a gaggle of planes around the back country, bagging strips.....guess who the liability target is going to be in the event of an oops? Whoever organized the program. Aircraft insurance policies really aren't very "fat" targets, compared to 401Ks, trust fund babies, etc.

This specific type of activity, STOL Cross, is likely going to be pretty limited as to locations. Start mowing grass strips on public lands, and someone is likely to notice. The one featured in the video includes a powerline ROW. I'm guessing the power company isn't going to be too thrilled about that sort of activity.

It's definitely not my cup of tea. Sorry, but I spent thirty years going out in the middle of nowhere (and sometimes the edges of nowhere), not knowing where I was going to land, then figuring it out.....with a load, and knowing that when I came back, I'd be picking up that load, for a heavy takeoff. So, this kind of stuff isn't the least bit interesting to me. And, as long as they keep it in Arkansas and California, doesn't bother me. Move it to public lands......then I'd have a concern.

But, like events that are currently ongoing, I suspect that liability is going to regulate these things. And, you invite them, and they show up, they are YOUR responsibility, regardless of when or how an accident occurs.

If the STOL competitions do carry event liability insurance, you can bet the premiums just went up. And, that may in fact wind up be the limiting factor in these deals.

MTV

low rider wrote:Enjoy it while you can . People ruin everything . Be respectful of your surroundings and always remember that the majority of the public hates airplanes . There seems to be a whole new breed of STOL clowns out there . Unfortunately just a matter of time before the rules become overbearing . ( think permits for going into the wilderness with your plane just like all the other permitted activities .) There is a video out there somewhere of a handful of STOL clowns just pounding Shearer airstrip landing and taking off both ways over and over making about as much noise in the wilderness as possible. Our flying freedoms won’t last much longer if this is the new normal.

Agreed,

Stupid people bring the heavy hand of regulation, and in this case these people are particularly stupid, and the FAA's hand is particularly heavy.

schu

What could possibly go wrong?

Hi

Apparently whizzing around/under high power lines in an LSA "skyrockets your skills as an aviator to new heights."