The other day a customer asked me something that I've never thought about before. We were discussing which 406 to put in his plane and he asked if the ACK model is removable in the case of a wreck... this got me researching a bit and I have come to te conclusion that it's not, due to not having a backup antenna. In fact, none of the 406s that I've researched do. So my question for you guys is, do you know of any 406 ELTs on the market that come with a backup antenna? Or is there an antenna a guy can buy that will do the job?
Thanks
David

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I'd call a radio shop and tell them the transmission frequency and connection (SMA, probably) and they should have a variety of antennas for less than $30.

I used to have an Ameriking 406 ELT that had an alternate antenna that could be used after removing the ELT from the plane. I now have an ELT that does not have an alternate antenna. I think that if the crash is bad enough that the antenna connection is broken, there is probably going to be considerable difficulty in getting to and removing the ELT and being able to use an alternate antenna. So, I now carry a PLB in my flight vest. I think I have a much better chance of activating that, assuming that I am still able to function and can extricate myself from the plane. Even if I can't get out of the plane, activating the PLB would work much better than trying to get to the ELT and getting an antenna attached. That is just my thinking on this.
Charles

MontanaT-craft wrote:I used to have an Ameriking 406 ELT that had an alternate antenna that could be used after removing the ELT from the plane. I now have an ELT that does not have an alternate antenna. I think that if the crash is bad enough that the antenna connection is broken, there is probably going to be considerable difficulty in getting to and removing the ELT and being able to use an alternate antenna. So, I now carry a PLB in my flight vest. I think I have a much better chance of activating that, assuming that I am still able to function and can extricate myself from the plane. Even if I can't get out of the plane, activating the PLB would work much better than trying to get to the ELT and getting an antenna attached. That is just my thinking on this.
Charles

Ya we carry SPOT trackers as well, but it's still nice to be able to use the E.L.T. A flip over will most likely break the antenna off, and won't make it super hard to get at the ELT, and this is really the case where it'd be nice to have...

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ELTs give marginal assurances at best. Although, required. Ask an avionics shop to fabricate a spare antenna.

Best scenario:

EPIRB, flares, VHF, inReach in survival vest. You may only get one chance to get out and away from the wreck. In water forget the ELT. Note in Picture: vest is for surface vessel only! Use inflatable TSO vest in aircraft.


Note:
I fly in what I may sleep in too. Heavy Foulweather gear, wool undergarments, in cold climates.

Thread drift at its finest.

Sorry, but I don't want this to turn into a survival thread. We have enough of those already. It's also not a what's best, ELT or SPOT thread. I asked a simple question amd wondered if anyone had an answer. I will check out if a shop will make an antenna for me.
Still would like to know if anyone knows of a 406 on the market that sells as porrable/fixed like most of the old 121.5s did. I also wonder what the rational behind was for the manufacturers to go away from that style...

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MontanaT-craft wrote:I used to have an Ameriking 406 ELT that had an alternate antenna that could be used after removing the ELT from the plane. I now have an ELT that does not have an alternate antenna. I think that if the crash is bad enough that the antenna connection is broken, there is probably going to be considerable difficulty in getting to and removing the ELT and being able to use an alternate antenna. So, I now carry a PLB in my flight vest. I think I have a much better chance of activating that, assuming that I am still able to function and can extricate myself from the plane. Even if I can't get out of the plane, activating the PLB would work much better than trying to get to the ELT and getting an antenna attached. That is just my thinking on this.
Charles

Same approach, same rationale. Plus ADS/B that transmits position, heading, ground speed, and altitude finely sliced so with minimal forensics a good tight search area is likely to result.

PapernScissors wrote:

MontanaT-craft wrote:I used to have an Ameriking 406 ELT that had an alternate antenna that could be used after removing the ELT from the plane. I now have an ELT that does not have an alternate antenna. I think that if the crash is bad enough that the antenna connection is broken, there is probably going to be considerable difficulty in getting to and removing the ELT and being able to use an alternate antenna. So, I now carry a PLB in my flight vest. I think I have a much better chance of activating that, assuming that I am still able to function and can extricate myself from the plane. Even if I can't get out of the plane, activating the PLB would work much better than trying to get to the ELT and getting an antenna attached. That is just my thinking on this.
Charles

Same approach, same rationale. Plus ADS/B that transmits position, heading, ground speed, and altitude finely sliced so with minimal forensics a good tight search area is likely to result.

Just make absolutely certain that you are not transmitting with BOTH the ELT and the PLB simultaneously. It is possible that the two signals could interfere with proper location.

MTV

PLB's and 406 Mhz ELT's send out a data burst for 1/4 second every 50 seconds. The chance of two of them interfering with each other is to small to worry about. Turn them both on, in case one of them doesn't work. Just my $.02 worth.

If s--- hit the fan...

I forgot to mention the handy dandy Iridium 9600 satellite telephone. Make sure the batteries are charged: My stuff going to Australia...


Seaplanes may like this:

8GCBC wrote:If s--- hit the fan...

I forgot to mention the handy dandy Iridium 9600 satellite telephone. Make sure the batteries are charged: My stuff going to Australia...


Seaplanes may like this:

Do you read any above posts? Or do you just not give a crap?

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Sorry. I'm a SAR guy. Got a little bit too into it. Did you get any solutions? It was a very good original question.

We have 2 Kannad Integra units. Can operate without external antenna and has built in GPS. I can't say if they're good or bad, never used either one. They install easily and seem to work when tested.

One version of the Artex ME406, which Artex calls an ME406 Portable, is available with an additional antenna for out-of-airplane use. I looked into buying just the antenna, because it's a wrap around strapped to the unit that all it does is screw on in place of the airplane's antenna. I already have the original ME406, but Artex wanted an arm and a leg for just the portable antenna. So instead, I decided to just stick with carrying a pair of ACR PLBs. I don't know what the difference in price is between a "normal" ME406 and an ME406 Portable. It's on their website, but it doesn't show prices. https://www.acrartex.com/products/catal ... uJNte.dpbs

Cary

Dale Moul wrote:PLB's and 406 Mhz ELT's send out a data burst for 1/4 second every 50 seconds. The chance of two of them interfering with each other is to small to worry about. Turn them both on, in case one of them doesn't work. Just my $.02 worth.

That is true of the 406 signal, but most ELTs still have a 121.5 transmitter as well, as do many PLBs.

That 121.5 signal can assist SAR in DFing your location. Theoretically, the 406 location data SHOULD be good enough to locate you, but I’ll take all the help I can get.

Secondly, why would you want to use up both batteries simultaneously? I’d rather use one till it’s battery dies, then activate the other.

MTV

Just as a data point, I had a 406 ELT that the switch failed on. I couldn’t turn it off.

I landed, manually disconnected it from the antenna, and manually turned the switch on the unit off. I returned RCCs call and they verified it was off.

I left the ELT in the back of my Cessna and went to register at OSH. Ten minutes later, RCC called again and told me the beacon was alerting again. I told them it didn’t have an antenna, and was inside a metal plane. The nice Major said stand by. A few minutes later, he came on and said “I’m plotting you about 50 to 75 meters west of runway 36 at Wittman Field, Oshkosh, WI.

And, yes, I did ask him if that was based on the first alert, with an antenna, or on the current signal. He said current signal.

The 406 signal, as noted above, goes out as a very short data burst, and as such it can be at a much higher power output than the 121.5 signal, which is continuous. The 406 signal on that unit was 10 Watts, which is pretty powerful.

406 is UHF, so antenna can be pretty small and still work. Not as well, but...

I wouldn’t bet the farm on it, but if my ELT was ripped free of antenna, I’d leave it on. I’d also find a short piece of cable or ?? And try to improve the odds.

MTV

A-1 Skinner;

I did a quick search and found this:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/a ... 7zEALw_wcB

My ELT unfortunately does not have a whip antenna that allows the unit to be removed and used remotely.

As pointed out in an earlier thread the 406 MHz ELT's do not start broadcasting for 52 seconds (I think that is the exact number) due to some requirement mostly related to marine locators.

I went with an ELT w/o the whip antenna due to ELT406GP drawing Aircraft power for the GPS therefore always being updated. My logic is if the fecal matter hits the fan I may have time to get out a signal with GPS position(s) before interacting with the ground. If one adds the satellite acquisition time to the burst delay it is possible the signal will go out without the gps location signal and, as was pointed out, an exterior antenna is quite possibly going to be disabled by impact and no signal at all will go out after impact.

I went with the https://www.eltechnolgies.com/ unit and have been bugging them about the whip antenna ever since. They are saying the antenna has to be properly configured etc. I am not sure how tough this actually can be since I am not an electronics guy, but it would be really nice.

I am pretty sure you and everyone else I know have a PLB stuck in their pocket while flying.

TD