I work as head of collections at the national norwegian aviation Museum in Bodø. A while back, I came across an old cub sitting in a barn. After a bit of research, I found out that this bird was built as an L-4 in 1944, and that it was shipped to Normandy where it where it flew until the end of the war. Norwegian aviation after the war was in shambles, and the Norwegian Aero Club decided to buy a bunch of old L-4 from the US Army, turn them into J-3s and distribute them among clubs all over the country. This was "civilized" and flew at many different clubs all over Norway until 1982, when it had an accident. The club sold it to a guy that intended to fix it and fly it again. Life got in the way, and it sat in a barn until last year! After many inspections by a bunch of people who knows a lot more than I do, I was talked into buying it for the museum, with the intention to restore it an fly it!

Here is the bit that might piss off some of you: it will aboslutely NOT be restored to it's 1944 L-4 standard, but it's last well known condition as a club plane. There used to be many of these "NAK Cubs", but every. single. one. who has survived has been turned into WWII Grasshoppers again. So an important bit of norwegian flying aviation history is missing. A huge number of people learned to fly in these things, and they were the backbone of civilian aviation into well into the 70s.

So watch this space! I suppose a build thread might be coming up as we get into it.

A little heads up though. I am an academic and my responsibility is administrative as head of a department. So I don't know much about the practical work. Luckily we've teamed up with some very skilled people to do the actual work! They're restoring and flying warbirds, so they know what they'll be doing.

Myself, I'm a sport pilot, but when we begun this project, I immedietaly began PPL training. Until now I've thought that the plane that would fit my mission the best would be the ICP Savannah. But looking at the Cub, I'm beginning to have second thoughts... How about a "restomod" J-3/PA-11? Let's say the starting point is a Wag Aero Sport trainer. What would you do to it to make it the best possible classic/modern Cub? I'm thinking Wing tanks, PA-11 windshield, Oratex, add left side door, copy the aileron mechanism for flaps, maybe consider more modern engines (D-Motor LF-26, Rotax, Aeromomentum, ULPower etc), and maybe somewhat improved ergonomics? What would YOU do? A full on bush plane doesn't make much sense in Norway. Landing anywhere outside an airstrip, a private field or in the ocean is not legal.

Wing tanks and PA 11 windshield make the airplane faster, and offers more fuel capacity. Keep the tanks relatively small (12 gallons will fit between ribs) and one on each side you’ll have nice capacity.

I would never install left side door. No need and you’re adding weight, moving throttle, etc. it’s a big deal, and for what?

I’ve owned a 90 hp J-3 converted to PA-11 and a PA-11. Neither had flaps. Neither I ever felt needed them. Slips are a blast. And you can land so short.....too much weight and complexity.

Look, these airplanes are a joy to fly largely because they are so light and perform so well. Don’t weigh it down with a bunch of unnecessary “stuff”.

I’d convert the elevator cable run to Super Cub style and install a small, lightweight, baggage compartment behind rear seat.

Install a small battery and maybe a wind turbine to charge it Sioux you can power a hand held radio and small gps.

Most of all, equip it with a good strong C-90 or a hot riddled C-85.

And HAVE FUN!

MTV

Exactly what MTV said!!! Keep it light and have a blast!!!
John

Please, do NOT modify it from its stock form! A stock L4/J3 is more fun than you can imagine. Adding *anything* to it will only make it heavier, less capable and less enjoyable. I might make an exception for a wing tank and a radio, bit not much else. I solo’d in an L-4 and currently own a very stock J-3, so I speak from experience. Lighter is better, and it absolutely does not need flaps or any engine bigger than 90hp (mine is 65hp and is a blast to fly).

Keep it simple! The only thing I wish we’d done when restoring it was to use a Super Cub forward trim pulley and cable. It wraps 1 1/2 times around the pulley and doesn’t slip like the stock setup can.

Cannon wrote:Please, do NOT modify it from its stock form! A stock L4/J3 is more fun than you can imagine. Adding *anything* to it will only make it heavier, less capable and less enjoyable. I might make an exception for a wing tank and a radio, bit not much else. I solo’d in an L-4 and currently own a very stock J-3, so I speak from experience. Lighter is better, and it absolutely does not need flaps or any engine bigger than 90hp (mine is 65hp and is a blast to fly).

Keep it simple! The only thing I wish we’d done when restoring it was to use a Super Cub forward trim pulley and cable. It wraps 1 1/2 times around the pulley and doesn’t slip like the stock setup can.

I get the feeling some of you didn’t read my post well enough or matbe inwrote it badle. The original L-4/J-3 will NOT be modified in any way!

The idea I’m toying with is to begin with a brand new Wag Aero Sport Trainer, and modify it to be a classic plane with some of the functionality and features of a modern plane

The one on the picture will be faithfully restored to last well-known. Neither warbird or restomod


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Yeah. When I read it the first time it didn’t come across as two separate projects. A second read and it’s clear.

What are the experimental rules there? Can you fly a plane there with no electrical system? No radio?

Two great projects; please update the site as often as reasonable, many of us live vicariously thru these kinds of efforts.

Please, do NOT modify it from its stock form! A stock L4/J3 is more fun than you can imagine. Adding *anything* to it will only make it heavier, less capable and less enjoyable. I might make an exception for a wing tank and a radio, bit not much else. I solo’d in an L-4 and currently own a very stock J-3, so I speak from experience. Lighter is better, and it absolutely does not need flaps or any engine bigger than 90hp (mine is 65hp and is a blast to fly).

Keep it simple! The only thing I wish we’d done when restoring it was to use a Super Cub forward trim pulley and cable. It wraps 1 1/2 times around the pulley and doesn’t slip like the stock setup can.

As I said, the real L-4/J-3 will not be modified in any way. I am trying to convince the restoration team to go for cotton, but they're a bit hesitant since it's a flyer...

When people ask about modding a real J-3 I totally get why it should be kept stock. For what it is, it's a brilliant little plane. But if a Wag Aero is the starting point, and the idea is to make classic/modern hybrid that get's the most out of the original J-3 design, then what could be done? It depends on what characteristics you'd want to keep. Having no flaps might definetely be one of those. But if functionality comes first, wouldn't a set of flaps be of any use you think? For the sake of simplicity, I thought just getting an extra set of ailerons and fit them on the inside of the actual ailerons on the wing. And why add a left door? Symmetrical bubble doors!

Yeah I know, it's just as good to just get a plane that already has most of these features. A Rans S-7 is quite close... It was just a brain fart that didn't take rationality into consideration at all It's going to be fun joining the restoration team working on the real Grasshopper/Cub, and then fly it. Maybe the pure experience is good enough to promp an as-true-as-possible Wag Aero build...

What are the experimental rules there? Can you fly a plane there with no electrical system? No radio?

Don't have to have an electrical system, but you need radio and transponder. We're looking at sticking them in the wong root.

Two great projects; please update the site as often as reasonable, many of us live vicariously thru these kinds of efforts.

Will oblige! Build thread on the real Grasshopper/Cub is coming up soon! The custom Sport Trainer thingy was just a brain fart I had...

I recently flew a clip wing Cub with a C-90 and an MT prop. What a cool airplane! It flew nice and gentle like a stock J-3, yet had responsive ailerons and still lands slow. Reed had an STC’d kit in the late 60s. No STC required for what you want though.

Varanger wrote:

Please, do NOT modify it from its stock form! A stock L4/J3 is more fun than you can imagine. Adding *anything* to it will only make it heavier, less capable and less enjoyable. I might make an exception for a wing tank and a radio, bit not much else. I solo’d in an L-4 and currently own a very stock J-3, so I speak from experience. Lighter is better, and it absolutely does not need flaps or any engine bigger than 90hp (mine is 65hp and is a blast to fly).

Keep it simple! The only thing I wish we’d done when restoring it was to use a Super Cub forward trim pulley and cable. It wraps 1 1/2 times around the pulley and doesn’t slip like the stock setup can.

As I said, the real L-4/J-3 will not be modified in any way. I am trying to convince the restoration team to go for cotton, but they're a bit hesitant since it's a flyer...

When people ask about modding a real J-3 I totally get why it should be kept stock. For what it is, it's a brilliant little plane. But if a Wag Aero is the starting point, and the idea is to make classic/modern hybrid that get's the most out of the original J-3 design, then what could be done? It depends on what characteristics you'd want to keep. Having no flaps might definetely be one of those. But if functionality comes first, wouldn't a set of flaps be of any use you think? For the sake of simplicity, I thought just getting an extra set of ailerons and fit them on the inside of the actual ailerons on the wing. And why add a left door? Symmetrical bubble doors!

Yeah I know, it's just as good to just get a plane that already has most of these features. A Rans S-7 is quite close... It was just a brain fart that didn't take rationality into consideration at all It's going to be fun joining the restoration team working on the real Grasshopper/Cub, and then fly it. Maybe the pure experience is good enough to promp an as-true-as-possible Wag Aero build...

What are the experimental rules there? Can you fly a plane there with no electrical system? No radio?

Don't have to have an electrical system, but you need radio and transponder. We're looking at sticking them in the wong root.

Two great projects; please update the site as often as reasonable, many of us live vicariously thru these kinds of efforts.

Will oblige! Build thread on the real Grasshopper/Cub is coming up soon! The custom Sport Trainer thingy was just a brain fart I had...

I'd still stick with my original recommendations. Short answer to your question about flaps: NO, a good light Cub type plane does NOT need flaps. I could stick either of my two Cubs into almost anyplace most folks could put a Super Cub with flaps by simply slipping. And, that is FUN!

If you want more gadgets, flaps qualify. Needed, or even desirable? Not really.

Same goes for left door. Ounces count, and a left door is going to require more weight, more complexity, and frankly, it's basically useless unless you go on floats, and even there, I've spent several thousand hours on floats in planes with right door only, and never really wished I had another door. Well, maybe once.... But, on wheels.....not even desireable.

You want visibility? Good grief, the Cubs have tons of visibility bone stock.

I'd stick with a small Lithium Iron Phosphate battery to power a handheld radio, intercom and transponder. A friend actually did this with the Trig radios, which are panel mounted 2 inch diameter. He only runs the transponder in airspace that requires it.....sorta legal, maybe. A small wind turbine mounted in the gear cabane will provide enough energy to keep the battery topped off. I installed my battery just ahead of the right rear rudder pedal on the floor. Good access, and out of the way. No box necessary, just a small frame and strap to hold it.

But, as I said earlier: Keep it light. This applies to ANY of this category of airplane, NOT just Piper built planes.

MTV

Ok, I see it now. Glad you’re keeping the L-4 in it’s original configuration. That’ll be a fun plane when it’s done.