Again, read the charts....the CONTROLLING agency is NOT the military. They are the USING agency. When the airspace is active, the USING AGENCY controls it. When it's not, it belongs to the CONTROLLING agency, which is almost always Center.

In my experience, MOST military controllers will nearly always say NO to any civilian entry into "their" airspace. But, if it's not active, it isn't THEIR airspace. Remember, most of these controllers are pretty junior, and what's to lose if they tell civilians to go away?

Now, in the Eastern Alaska MOA Complex (which includes several large restricted areas, some of which are bombing ranges) Eielson Range Control will routinely clear you through the restricted airspace while it's notam'd hot, as long as there are no military aircraft in the Restricted areas at the moment. You'll hear them say "Belchfire 208, I've got a pair of F-16s inbound in fifteen minutes, if you can be through the restricted area by then, you're cleared through Restricted area 2202...."

If it ain't active, Center owns it. Call them.

MTV

EZFlap wrote:

Vick wrote:Would be interested to hear from anyone who's been successful getting a clearance through there.

Well, there's some guys wearing civilian clothes (and short haircuts) who flew a couple of older 737's at Vegas/McCarran airport you could talk to, their aircraft were painted mostly all white (including the windows). I understand they used to go into that airspace on Mondays and out on Fridays. Call sign JANET, according to legend.



CAll SIGN.....Red Rock 1 and Red Rock 2

The JANET flights still exist and operate pretty much Monday through Friday. B737-600's now. Window shades drawn, no camera's etc. They used to originate in Burbank when Lockheed had a facility there. In those days they had a really big gate separating the taxiway with their ramp. I've seen them taxi into the hangar. Not that Lockheed owns/operates them or has anything to do with it now.....

http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KTNX
Not flying related but interesting:
http://www.lazygranch.com/bg.htm

mtv wrote:Again, read the charts....the CONTROLLING agency is NOT the military. They are the USING agency. When the airspace is active, the USING AGENCY controls it. When it's not, it belongs to the CONTROLLING agency, which is almost always Center.
MTV

Actually I have read the Sectional. Under the heading: controlling agency / contact facility it says NELLIS RANGE CON. That sounds military to me.

Desert Rat wrote:

mtv wrote:Again, read the charts....the CONTROLLING agency is NOT the military. They are the USING agency. When the airspace is active, the USING AGENCY controls it. When it's not, it belongs to the CONTROLLING agency, which is almost always Center.
MTV

Actually I have read the Sectional. Under the heading: controlling agency / contact facility it says NELLIS RANGE CON. That sounds military to me.

Ha.. Some of that unexploded ordinance, they are talking about right under that, may "really" pack a whallop...

Ha.. Some of that unexploded ordinance, they are talking about right under that, may "really" pack a whallop...

Evidently you think an emergency landing, even with nice soft Bushwheels, might not be good.

Ha... Not sure, but the ol Bushwheels might not help much with a 100 Megaton Atomic Blast... Don't get me wrong, I love em... ha ha

Bushwheels that is... not Atomic Blasts.. ha ha

"No airfields or active active runways exist..."

Now that's funny. I can imagine how that being printed on a sectional chart will get all the UFO types totally wound up... "the government lies... see we told you... here's a picture of the air base !!!"

So it is Nellis conrole. On Sunday, do you have to get ahold of them to enter or is it just VFR and have a good day?

Tim

"No airfields or active active runways exist..."

Actually they are correct, groom lake is in 4808n not in 4807 or 4806. The note is only for 4806 and 4807.

I might have been a bit hasty about the choice of the Meeting Place. We might not be alone. I see a couple of things that I don't like. Those might be shipping containers. Oh man .

.

Does that look like a truck or what?

qmdv wrote:So it is Nellis conrole. On Sunday, do you have to get ahold of them to enter or is it just VFR and have a good day?

Tim

I'll go with you Tim. You know I'm not scared

BTW...... you all think that the Government is keeping an eye on this thread now?

So, how's it going Mr or Miss CIA? Pretty interesting conversation we're having, right?

Desert Rat wrote:I might have been a bit hasty about the choice of the Meeting Place. We might not be alone. I see a couple of things that I don't like. Those might be shipping containers. Oh man .

.

See, they are on to you!!

Here's one of those "not an airport" airports in the R 2508 complex:



Complete with old Phantoms parked on the ramp and runways


and here's a handy hair-raising booklet to read if you are flying anywhere near the 16,000 sq. mi. of special use airspace around the Mojave Desert, Owens or Saline Valleys. Check out the Brillo pad of training routes that are cleared for 500 kts at zero AGL. Does ANY of this make it to Youtube??? I want to see my tax dollars at work/play.

http://www.edwards.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-080623-104.pdf

We have a couple of those target practice "airports" here near Edwards, complete with derelict Phantoms on them. I nicknamed one of them "Phantom Acres". Not on the charts either. I'm sure it is used for practice runs, missile and bomb tests, etc.

Fly east of Eielson AFB (SE of Fairbanks) into Restricted Area 2205. There is a complete air force base there, including airplanes, tanks, AAA batteries, buildings, etc. All fiberglass replicas.

Again, as to flying through Special Use Airspace....if it isn't active, either published or by notam, it effectively doesn't exist. NOT true of Prohibited airspace, though, mind you.

MTV

Yellowbelly:
We have one of those to.

Now you boys be careful in there. Mr Scout has been known to patrol those restricted areas, and he shoots first and asks questions later...



Gump