Hey guys,

I'm looking at a house as a long term home for me and my girl, wanted to get a consensus on my idea of landing a float plane there.

The river is commonly traversed by pontoon boats as well as outboard fishing boats, gov site says the depth averages 5-12', of course I'll pre map it by boat first.

The house has a concret wall by the water, where a small floating dock of some sort was attached. it stands about 4-5' above the water, there is a lower part that is just mud/dirt, I was thinking of beaching there, or maybe making a wooded ramp that I could use to drop the gear (amphib) and drive the plane partially up, semi getting the plane more out of the water, if that makes sense

The largest plane would be my 185F on edo 2790 amphibs, they are painted and I'd like to not scratch the bottoms to hell. It wouldn't be a long term storage thing, the plane has a hangar, probably 2 days max.




The length before the bridge, which my tail won't clear, is 2,300' and averages 350' wide
The longer stretch south is about 3,600' keeping left of the island.




Here's the pic of the area I was thinking of ramping (lower left area in the picture), not the best pic I know.



Thoughts? Opinions?

Thanks

Not knowing anything about your river, my gut feeling would be to have a way of getting your plane out of the river and far enough away in case of a flash flood situation (strong current, floating debris, ect), it happens fast. A rail system to get the plane up and away from the river would be the slickest thing, next best would be to install a ramp out of the water, though that may be an issue with whatever authority controls the river frontage. You will have to decide what takeoff length you are comfortable with, day in an day out with amphibs on your plane. Others will have good comments, but this is a starting point for the conversation.

Steve

First thing I would do is contact local and state authorities to if seaplane landings or parking will be an issue there. Are there close neighbors on the river? As you're well aware, I'm sure, the 185 on floats makes a lot of noise, which some folks might object to. Is there a lot of boat traffic on this river? Jet skis, kayaks, etc??

I would not plan to use the section of the river nearest the bridge. At 2300 feet in length, takeoffs could get a little exciting in that stretch with the 2790 floats. They'll get off the water in that if well flown, but now you have to cross over a bridge or if takeoff is in the other direction, over trees......not a great scenario. That is too tight a takeoff area for that airplane, in my opinion. The other area looks to be a much better stretch of river for takeoffs. And, landings for that matter.

A wooden ramp will become incredibly slick in just a short time, unless you install some sort of covering to ensure a good grip. Trust me when I say you don't want to be halfway up a ramp and have the bow wheels start to slide sideways.......

I would consider a simple wooden ramp not to taxi up with wheels, but rather just to park the plane on the float keels. That can be a good way to park, assuming the river levels don't vary a great deal. If you're thinking of a ramp to taxi out of the water on wheels, I'd try to figure out how to install a permanent concrete ramp.

A floating dock would work fine, assuming the current isn't too strong, and there's not a lot of trash floating down the river to hang up on the dock. This also depends on your state and local statutes on installing docks, whether they can be permanent or must be removable, etc.

If it were me, I'd try to figure out a way to get a permanent ramp installed, but this won't be cheap. Alternatively, I'd rig a wooden ramp to power the plane up on for parking overnight.

Good luck.

MTV

I agree that 2300' is going to a challenge. The longer stretch looks good.

As to the ramp, this setup works great. We converted an R&G boat beacher. Basically two beams running parallel to shore, steel channel with 4X4's bolted on. The geometry works well, as the rear beam picks up the floats behind the step, making the airplane somewhat level.
We have about $1000 into it. There is a store bought version http://www.seaplanerails.com/

Previously, we winched the airplane up the wood ramp you see in the video, and powered off to depart. It worked fine, but the beacher is far superior.

Upstate NY? Going to Speculator 6/19-21? Look for our checkered tail 180. At least one more 180, plus an assortment of other types

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Thanks for the replies guys!

I'd like to go to the fly-in, but I'm working those days, I'm looking into seeing if I can trade days with someone.


As for flash floods and water levels, the home isn't in a flood zone and the dams keep the water levels fairly constant.

The seller of the home had a pontoon boat and a dock with a walk way, he said that there are about 3 miles of boatable river before a 3' deep sand bar up river from the home which goes across the river

I'm still not sure if I want to just build a floating dock like the one he had, but offset further away from the bridge, or build a ramp.

I like the idea of that ramp slider, though I wonder if I could make the same type of setup but instead of the slider use my landing gear to get up the ramp and chalked/tied in.

I'm not trying to make a SPB, just somewhere where I can leave the plane or a day or two, guess it's a balance between not building and spending more than I have to, while still having something that does the job properly.

Here's a few photos I got from the seller.

Here's the sellers pontoon boat and the dock, if I duplicate this I'd want to be a little further away from that bridge.


Second shot from the pontoon boat, looking up river, away from the bridge and towards the property



Here's a video he took a little up river too


I also checked in the the Department of Conservation and the local PD, both were fine with float ops on that area of the river.

Traffic is limited, apparently there is one other pontoon boat, couple 10' or so outboard powered fishing and putting boats, occasionally a canoe or kayak, overall it's not very trafficked area, it's kinda farmer ville, even though it's close to one of the larger towns.

How many houses are along that stretch of river? The neighbors may be the biggest limitation, as noisy as a 185 is. But, if your use will only be occasional, that helps.

Depending on how strong the current is there, and how windy it is there, a ramp can be your best friend......docks can be a real PITA in much current and/or wind.

MTV

Docks (floating/fixed) are good for loading gear inside not berthing a seaplane. Get a long ramp with good tie downs.

You are living large! Very cool area and ideas.

Here is a picture of the ramp our flying club uses for the Cub. It is made out of used light poles and rough sawn lumber, very inexpensive and gets the job done.

This is a shot of the rail system I use to get my plane in the hangar, it is very similar to what Aqua is using. A little more costly to put one of these in, less hassle than a ramp, but requires electricity to power the motor. It all depends on your wants and needs.


Steve

steve wrote:Here is a picture of the ramp our flying club uses for the Cub. It is made out of used light poles and rough sawn lumber, very inexpensive and gets the job done.

This is a shot of the rail system I use to get my plane in the hangar, it is very similar to what Aqua is using. A little more costly to put one of these in, less hassle than a ramp, but requires electricity to power the motor. It all depends on your wants and needs.


Steve

Now that's one heck of a nice setup with that hangar!

Is there anyway you guys think I could utilize my landing gear to roll up the ramp?

Any reason this would be a bad idea?

I was thinking of making two ramps with this stuff, maybe 2 feet wide each and 20' long, connecting them, putting some steaks into the ground, figure it would be removable in winter, wouldn't get slick and looks easy to assemble, just a little $



http://thruflow.com/get-thruflow/shop/aqua-dek-panels/#!

Unless there is a big ramp available to taxi onto (think a true seaplane base, or paved public boat launch), it seems to me that operators would be better off handling their amphibs as straight float machines.

So if you want to keep it simple; I'd go with something like Steve's flying club ramp, with the gear up. (You'd need a shallower angle with those long floats) A dock alongside would make it a lot easier.

BTW, the boat in Steve's hangar is sitting on what looks like the exact model beacher we converted.

I agree. Those nose gears on the EDO 2790s aren't as robust as I'd like for taxiing up ramps regularly, especially a ramp that isn't very solid and smooth. I suspect those "mats" you illustrated will give some, so unless the soil underneath is REALLY solid, and unless there is NO erosion from current, I'd bet your ramp will rapidly become uneven and hence ugly to try to use. Looks like a recipe for problems to me.

Also, in a current and wind, it's really easy to miss the mark by just a bit......two foot wide strips for each wheel is REALLY narrow.

As Aqua says, I'd keep the plane on it's float keels for this operation.

A narrow and/or steep ramp on amphibs is a pretty bad idea. I wouldn't taxi an amphib up on anything but a nice shallow sloping boat ramp made of concrete, frankly. And, yes, I've done that many times.

MTV

Only time I taxied up/down a concrete ramp was at Bob Wiplinger's seaplane base/airstrip on the Mississippi River. Man that was fun! Coolest feeling in the world. But, as mentioned variables need to be evaluated before using a ramp. Especially water levels, ramp declination/length, water rudders, current/wind and ship alignments.

But, if it is safe, "Wow", a cool deal it is.

I agree with you guys, I'm just thinking I'm going to come up a little shy on realestate for the dry side of the ramp.

It is non rocky ground so I guess I could just beach her too..


Another thought, what about building a simple lift?

Figure I'm going to build a little floating dock anyways, have a lift beside it, dock as normal the crank her up?

Maybe build a modified version of something like this

On the Coast of Oregon (Capt. Cook named our area Cape Foul Weather) everything is tied down good and strong. Not sure about your weather or how exposed you are? But, if you see gale force and above consider "Super sizing" your rig.

NineThreeKilo wrote:
Another thought, what about building a simple lift?

Figure I'm going to build a little floating dock anyways, have a lift beside it, dock as normal the crank her up?

Maybe build a modified version of something like this

A friend of mine on Lake Pend Oreille keeps his SuperCub on a lift like that when he's at his house on the water. Seems to work pretty well.

Wow! I'm really enjoying reading everyone's idea for a fixed spot for their floatplanes. Around home, most people build a u shaped floating dock. It always worries me seeing a floatplane tied to a single dock, with only one side supported.

My airplane, along with 5 others, live on a 2 mile stretch of river, situated between two damns. Being "landlocked" gives you the advantages of less boat traffic to deal with.

If you're only looking for keeping at your house for a few weekends, I would think a u shaped dock would be plenty. Waking up to the sight of your airplane from your bedroom window is definitely worth it!

We keep our circuits to the north to try to avoid noise complaints. Not that my rotax bothers many.
Step turns are just part of the fun.


Where mine sits, being its a creek of the river, it's sheltered from a lot of wind.


Good luck with the house! Can never go wrong living on the water

I would think that a lift with an integral ramp would be nearly ideal.

MTV

I've only ramped a seaplane once, in my first seaplane lesson in BC a couple of years ago--nice concrete ramp, and the airplane nicely glided up on the bow wave and sat down onto the ramp without sliding. Pretty cool. Wide ramp, relatively shallow angle, good instructor, piece of cake.

I didn't do any ramping during my seaplane training in Seattle last summer, just docking and beaching, but their dock system there has 2 ramps, which are pretty unique. They are wood and hinged to the fixed dock, and they ramp the airplanes onto them in the normal way, then inflate the floats under them to raise them level for dry storage.

So my ramping experience is minimal, but I have years and years of experience docking boats up to 36' long, and loading various size boats on trailers, sometimes in pretty awful conditions. Anything you can do to minimize the effects of current, and wind especially, will be a benefit. At least with a boat, even a single screw is much more maneuverable than a seaplane. And a boat has reverse, so if you screw it, you can always back off and try again. So I don't think you want a narrow ramp, or double ramps for each float. That's just too tricky.

Although using the amphib's gear instead of a trolley seems compelling, it means a lot less control over how it swings, compared to a trolley. You have no control at all if you winch it backwards. If you winch it forward, it will be controlled well enough going up the ramp, but again you'll have no control of how it swings going backwards down the ramp.

If it were my decision, for temporary use, I'd use a shallow wooden ramp, and ramp it gear up just like with straight floats, then lash it in place. For more permanent use, I'd ramp it onto a wooden ramp mounted on a trolley, lash it down, and pull the airplane and the ramp out with a winch. I think you'd be much less likely to damage your airplane that way.

Cary

Well the lift idea is out.


So last one, what about a shallow angled ramp, like a thin wood deck like structure, just resting on the ground, over half submerged, pull up on it, maybe a couple tractor inner tubes under the back end, inflate and bada bing?


... Reaching I know.

Here is a fairly simple ramp/dock that might work for you. It uses a cable winch system to lift and lower, so still requires electricity. I grabbed this picture off the internet, but was given a demonstration of how it worked by the owner several years ago, when at his place in Florida.

Steve