This is a whole different level of skill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC2XIGMI2kM

Thanks, now I have to eat lunch again.

I don't know anything about boats or helicopters and just a little about airplanes. Does it make any difference to the helicopter whether he faces downwind or into the wind to land? I know the hull of the ship is into the wave but not directly into it as there is a side rock and roll going on too. What happens if the ship is following the wave at the speed of the wave? Does it make for a longer interval between rolls to make a landing or would the waves be irregular enough to swamp the rear? Since this is what these guys do I'm sure they have tried it all ways but in order to fully show my ignorance on the subject I have to ask.

dirtstrip wrote:I don't know anything about boats or helicopters and just a little about airplanes. Does it make any difference to the helicopter whether he faces downwind or into the wind to land? I know the hull of the ship is into the wave but not directly into it as there is a side rock and roll going on too. What happens if the ship is following the wave at the speed of the wave? Does it make for a longer interval between rolls to make a landing or would the waves be irregular enough to swamp the rear? Since this is what these guys do I'm sure they have tried it all ways but in order to fully show my ignorance on the subject I have to ask.

I know part of the answer...

A boat in rough seas, rough in relation to its abilities, should be turned and run at a 45 degree angle into the waves. Boats are made to meet waves head on, and a following sea that is coming into a slow-moving boat can swamp it over the stern in a hurry. Not good. The bow is made to split and ride into a wave. A ship moving at the speed of a wave going with the wave is hardly controllable in rough water, it will race down the wave, slam into the bottom of the trough, then nearly stop and the following wave will swamp it. Obviously, the size and design of the boat and the wave size and wind state are all specifically relevant to determining whether you are in such a situation.

As far as the helicopter, I have only ridden a few times, watched some, I have no stick time in a chopper. But they land into the wind as well. Helicopters perform better in motion than in hover, so even landing is done with some motion until the point of settling. The helicopter is designed primarily for forward motion, so that is how landings are made. If you are holding position in a tailwind, the tail boom will be very low. You don't want the tail boom to hit, and you don't want an attitude that is so nose high that you don't have good forward vision of the landing site. Somebody with more experience should point out my errors here...but that's my understanding.

The Canadian Coast Guard experimented with a helicopter recovery procedure called "RAST", which stood for recovery at sea....something or other. In that, the helo lowered a cable, picked up a large cable from the deck of the boat, and pulled tension on the cable. At some point, the boat would reel them in, rapidly.....I've seen video, and it's pretty scary looking.

That is one brave helicopter pilot, and the deck crewman is pretty brave to stand out there as well. Could wind up with a lot of helicopter parts flailing around that deck.

MTV

wow

Wow indeed, but am I the only one surprised that this multimillion dollar helicopter with presumably the best avionics systems available flown by an amazing, obviously well-trained and practiced military pilot, has a garmin 295 or some such (velcro-ed?) to the panel?

With I had that skill set.

-rh

dirtstrip wrote:I don't know anything about boats or helicopters and just a little about airplanes. Does it make any difference to the helicopter whether he faces downwind or into the wind to land? I know the hull of the ship is into the wave but not directly into it as there is a side rock and roll going on too. What happens if the ship is following the wave at the speed of the wave? Does it make for a longer interval between rolls to make a landing or would the waves be irregular enough to swamp the rear? Since this is what these guys do I'm sure they have tried it all ways but in order to fully show my ignorance on the subject I have to ask.

Presently in Panama, preparing for tomorrow's transit of the Canal (heading to Washington), I can say as a tugboat captain that even a large tugboat can get tossed around pretty good. Some of it depends on the distance between waves (the wave frequency), as well as the length of the vessel, the speed of the vessel, the type of hull design, the displacement of the vessel, the height of each side of the wave, and if there are waves coming from other directions, among other things. From looking at the first part of the video, it looks to me like it is quartering the waves, not allowing any one motion to become too erratic (like pitching head-on or yawing side to side if in a beam sea). But in the actual landing sequence the waves look a little more tame and the sun is shining. Perhaps the landing sequence was taken later? In any case, except for quartering, there is no precise regularity upon which to base a decision to land. Putting the seas on the stern would make for a better ride for the boat, but may not be safe for the helicopter. My guess is that the pilot is simply waiting for a lull in the waves, a temporary, brief stillness of the vessel upon which to quickly put it down. That pilot is a cool character, quite patient. If he wasn't, then both he and the whirly bird would be in trouble.

By the way, I'll be going through the Gatun locks probably between 0830 to 0930 EDT, a blue and white tugboat with a barge in tow close behind with an unmistakable naval cargo. If anyone can get a screen shot grab from the Canal web cam and save it and email it to me later, that would be great.
http://www.pancanal.com/eng/photo/camer ... ?cam=Gatun

Then, on Monday we'll go through the Miraflores set of locks, time unknown, then be on the Pacific side. By the looks of it, the offshore weather off of Oregon and Washington coast doesn't look too good. I might have some bad weather videos of my own to share.

Been there.... did that ... have to admit it was exciting at times Had 3 feet clearance between the rotor blades and the rocket launcher.

I used to work in the CIC of a 378 ft Coast Guard Cutter (WHEC-726 "Midgett") and I can tell you what I know/remember from that life.

Part of it is setting up the boat for its optimal wave-cutting abilities. One has to consider that there aren't only waves in the big water, there are actually Seas and Swells. This is why the boat can't ride in the trough - because there are two different but similar forces at work. It's a little hard to explain without seeing it in person.

The other part of it is accident avoidance and damage mitigation. We liked to set up with 30/30. That's 30 degrees off either side of the bow at 30 knots. The reason for this is multipurpose. The Helo Deck was at the back of the boat (intentionally for this purpose) as were other strategically designed areas. In the event that there were an incident of any sort, the aircraft would be windswept away from the important areas of the ship. The CIWS was aft of the Fantail, the FT booth (the guys who shot the big guns) was below the deck that the Helo landed on, and the trash disposal unit (incinerator) was under the fantail. In the event that something went terribly wrong, it was the least damaging way to set up the landing. It couldn't be any where else on the ship, and if something goes wrong, setting up winds is important.

Hope that answers a few questions.

Zane wrote:This is a whole different level of skill.

I'll say, how'd they find the boat in the middle of the ocean with a Garmin 295? I remember when that was state of the art. I have 2 of em...haha!

ReddingRob wrote:Wow indeed, but am I the only one surprised that this multimillion dollar helicopter with presumably the best avionics systems available flown by an amazing, obviously well-trained and practiced military pilot, has a garmin 295 or some such (velcro-ed?) to the panel?

With I had that skill set.

-rh

Thats to funny.

I've done some of this in a prior life. Our limits on pitch and roll of the ship were only 2 and 6 which is a lot less than what you see in the video. Funny thing is if it's under the limit when you take off and over the limit when you get back, what are you going to do? Just like carrier landings I would have to add, anything done in daylight was pretty much fun and "hollywood". Let the sun go down and put some overcast sky in the picture and now you are going to earn your pay. I'd never seen dark until on a blacked out boat under an overcast sky a couple hundred miles offshore.

I see u been there too Just hope u have enough fuel to make it to a Carrier if it is to bad. the night landings were the worst We would not land with the rolls in the video

Had an H-3 low on fuel could not make it anywhere. Diverted to us with talk of ditching next to our ship. Our flight deck was to small to land and refuel for a Helo that size. We suggested he hover along side and lower his hoist and hook up our fuel line and pull it up and hook it up to the helo. It worked fine and was made normal procedure after that. Of course we got no praise for that

Very cool. It's funny how the upper end of the food chain would shoot everything down until it turned into "their" idea.

What deck were you on Don? Biggest I ever got on was DDG most of the time was Perry class frigates. Good times.

Meat Servo wrote:Very cool. It's funny how the upper end of the food chain would shoot everything down until it turned into "their" idea.

What deck were you on Don? Biggest I ever got on was DDG most of the time was Perry class frigates. Good times.

USS King DLG-10

The Canadian Coast Guard experimented with a helicopter recovery procedure called "RAST"

The US Navy had it installed on the USS Kinkaid DD965 in 1987or88.
It's on the bottom of the sea now.
I got my PASEL while onboard.
Just an enlisted man back then, retired in 1989

That was nuts from the side view at the start. I've done a few deck landings, but nothing in rough sees. Great demonstration of the proper technique. Set up your rhythm to land in the trough of the swell to let the boat meet you. Every time I've done it I've gotten claustrophobic at how small a visual the deck presents. Not sure I wouldn't treat that landing like an NVG dust landing - keep it level, start a descent, pray.

Brett