http://www.greatfallstribune.com/story/news/local/2014/07/22/central-montana-plane-crash-kills-pilot/12996065/

Very sad. The DA could easily been as high as 8500'-9000' yesterday at the time there. It was apparently a C150 or C152. Any number of things could have happened...there were no witnesses. Beautiful place. So tragic.

That whole area is beautiful. We drove across MT on I-90 last week, and it was hotter than blazes, so DA could be easily a contributing issue.

Cary

Flying in the mountains in the middle of the day in the summer is a mediocre idea, especially in a C150. Best wishes to all affected by this.

Flew in the day before this accident and almost bit it. Winds predicted at 9k less than 10 and scattered showers in the area. Landed Harlowtown in dead calm with scattered showers. Off to the flats I notice 35 knot tail wind at 8k as I cross the ridge to Russian Flat. I think to myself dont fly the rocks with this much wind but I can see the strip and give it a look see. Over fly the strip situated in a wide bowl in the rocks and notice the flag showing dead calm on the ground. Decide to land up hill do or die no go around to rising ground. Cows on the first third of runway. High DA. I descend. Twenty feet over the cows it appear as though I am 100mph over the cows. Look over to the sock and it is straight out and I am landing down wind. Give it the gas and slowly beat the tree tops to the ridge. Back over the ridge to Harlow I am relieved only to find the scattered showers have turned into yellow across a 60 mile range. The storm is moving NE and will pinch me off on the Snowy Mountains as I travel east to Billings. Fortunately I win the race and on arrival land at the max crosswind component and breath a sigh of relief. Lesson learned never trust the weather brief. Wind over 30 on the ridge go away. Landing with no go around think twice. I was in a 170, a 150 is way too under powered at high DA. In the mountains power is safety. My thoughts to these folks. I almost joined them.

Just another reason to be parked and drinking beer before 11 AM, when in the Western US and it's hot.

Gump

As Scolopax and Gump say, prior planning can prevent pitifully poor performance. He may not have needed to be there in the heat of the day. On the other hand, some have jobs and responsibilities that put them in the mountains in low powered airplanes in the heat of the day. Any of us, with powerful aircraft or no, can benefit from learning how to use natural energy, much more powerful in the heat of the day, to negotiate similar situations.

First off condolences to the family. This seems like a good thread for a quick Density Altitude reminder. If you don't know how to calculate it and do any kind of Backcountry flying I would take the time to learn.

I landed a rented 172 at a 1350 ft msl fairly short strip yesterday and it was hot. I calculated the DA just for kicks and it was 4500ft....more than triple the field elevation! Winds were favoring the uphill runway with rising terrain. I had no issues but the ol 172 sure doesn't climb like my Avid does!!

Some of you may remember this video...this is the same strip I departed yesterday with similiar conditions. This guy was fully loaded. Every CFI should have this video in their bag of tricks to show students the reality of DA on Aircraft Performance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVJJzyXQNAg

This morning in Georgia, multiple AWOS stations were saying a DA of 2000/2400 ft. These airports are at around 800ft...
You've always got to watch for DA sneaking up on you.

AvidFlyer wrote: I landed a rented 172 at a 1350 ft msl fairly short strip yesterday and it was hot. I calculated the DA just for kicks and it was 4500ft....more than triple the field elevation! Winds were favoring the uphill runway with rising terrain. I had no issues but the ol 172 sure doesn't climb like my Avid does!!

Come on Joey! You know better than to call a 4,000ft strip "fairly short".

The aircraft tried to takeoff uphill into an approx 10-15 knot headwind. At C150 speeds you need to maintain approx 500 FPM to outclimb the terrain when taking off here uphill. Given the temp the FAA has calculated that if the pilot leaned it exactly right the engine was putting out 56 HP. Never had a chance.

In a C-150 in the mountains in summer, we should always plan to have no excess engine thrust for climb. That means taking off down hill. With long runways we can get up into low ground effect and then stay in low ground effect over a long meadow like that.

In the mountains, we need to know which way is down hill and how to get there in ground effect when possible.

Avoidance would have been safer here. But, finding himself there, he could have benefited from training in the use of natural over engine energy.

Taking off downhill with a tailwind rather than uphill into rising terrain seems the wiser thing to do. That's what I did leaving La Garita, and it made for a pretty easy take off, other than the squirrely winds coming over the hills to the south of the runway, which bounced me around a bit. It also helps to know the airplane pretty well, especially what it will do in high DA circumstances with a load. Ground effect is most certainly your friend.

Cary

Even taking off downhill with a tailwind may have been a death trap in this situation with this airplane.

Sometimes, the only SAFE bet is to cool your heels, go for a hike, and wait for evening and cooler temperatures to takeoff. And sometimes, the only safe answer is to spend the night, and wait for cool morning temps.

That can be hard to do, but a test I learned a long time ago from an old time Alaskan pilot is: Prior to landing ANYwhere, ask yourself this question: Are you prepared and willing to sleep here tonight?

Once you've answered that question, then you can decide whether to land there.....

There haven't been many times I've answered no to that question, but I have spent an unintended overnight in a few places I'd rather have not.....like bug infested swamps.

MTV

Russian Flats is a deceptive strip. The mountains on the uphill departure appear smooth and wide open. The downhill departure requires an abrupt turn at the end of the runway in order to enter what is essentially a twisting canyon with more jagged peaks and higher peaks surrounding the exit. Prevailing winds favor the uphill exit but it is not wise with little power. This is a deceptive strip as from high above it looks pretty easy. Departing downhill downwind toward what appears much rougher terrain would be a hard decision for a novice in the mountains. I suspect there was not alot of mountain experience in this case given the fact it was tried with a 150.

mtv wrote:Sometimes, the only SAFE bet is to cool your heels, go for a hike, and wait for evening and cooler temperatures to takeoff. And sometimes, the only safe answer is to spend the night, and wait for cool morning.
That can be hard to do, but a test I learned a long time ago from an old time Alaskan pilot is: Prior to landing ANYwhere, ask yourself this question: Are you prepared and willing to sleep here tonight?

Once you've answered that question, then you can decide whether to land there..

MTV

That's really the best advice we pilots need to continually remind ourselves. Far to often do I find myself saying I'm just going to go for a short flight that turns into miles away from home in the middle of nowhere.

Akt

MTV's solution is the best. Even in the morning, a rudder turn in low ground effect might be preferable to trying to climb over the trees one way or the hill the other way.

What inexperienced pilots often miss is that attempting to get away from the ground, and free ground effect, quickly puts us in a lack of maneuverability box.

By following the drainage out, we also get free gravity thrust.