Legalities and Air Regulations not withstanding is there a viable, portable alternative to the soon to be "mandated" 406 ELTs. Is there a product that will "act" in a similar manor, including self-initiation on impact ?

Lets see, hand grenade in a coffee cup with the pin pulled will go off on impact. That was the preferred method in Nam. The 406 Beacon is a different animal from the ELT's of old. For one, they are uniquely ID'd. You need to register the unit to the vessel or aircraft it is attached to. PRB's (handhelds) are registered differently. You can get models that transmit your GPS position on activation. They also need to be indexed to your country with a unique country code.

I bet you where thinking along the lines of the old EBC102A or B, which was a little yellow brick you could put in a holder that had a goofy pendulum arrangement.

There is no other device with a built in G switch like ELTs have that I know of Maple. Unfortunately the percentage of 406 ELTs that still dont self activate is disturbing. I would never trust one to actually work and have incorporated manually activating it into my emergency checklist. Also hit SOS on my Spot.
COPA and others keep talking about using ADS-B as an alternative to ELTs up here I Canada, but I really have no idea how they plan to do that. We dont have the man power to follow every single plane, and even if one stops, how do they know I crashed or if I just stopped to take a leak on a road or flat spot? Then the whole side of TC using it for enforcement comes to the front...
I dont know what's best, but I'm not sure that ADS-B is the end all solution.

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With the update from COPA spelling out the closing days of the old 121.5 kits one had to wonder what options exist other then a $1500 “investment” in a somewhat less then perfect alternative. It seems to me that a “G switch” is a feature that even the hiking, touring world could use it may come in very handy should you tumble down the hill and no longer be able to push send on your device.

Mapleflt wrote:With the update from COPA spelling out the closing days of the old 121.5 kits one had to wonder what options exist other then a $1500 “investment” in a somewhat less then perfect alternative.

??

I bought a 406 ELT for less than $500 US some years ago. Maybe they've gone up a bunch?

A 406 PLB won't self activate, but I guess as long as you're alive enough to warrant a rescue, you can push two buttons.

Even at $1500, not having your family wonder what happened for weeks...or years...seems pretty cheap. We are flying airplanes after all...it's not like any of us are scrounging money for groceries.

Mapleflt wrote:With the update from COPA spelling out the closing days of the old 121.5 kits one had to wonder what options exist other then a $1500 “investment” in a somewhat less then perfect alternative. It seems to me that a “G switch” is a feature that even the hiking, touring world could use it may come in very handy should you tumble down the hill and no longer be able to push send on your device.

Yes I agree. A solid state MEMS sensor would work far better then a G switch, but i can imagine receritifying would be very costly...

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Hammer wrote:

Mapleflt wrote:With the update from COPA spelling out the closing days of the old 121.5 kits one had to wonder what options exist other then a $1500 “investment” in a somewhat less then perfect alternative.

??

I bought a 406 ELT for less than $500 US some years ago. Maybe they've gone up a bunch?

A 406 PLB won't self activate, but I guess as long as you're alive enough to warrant a rescue, you can push two buttons.

Even at $1500, not having your family wonder what happened for weeks...or years...seems pretty cheap. We are flying airplanes after all...it's not like any of us are scrounging money for groceries.

The cheapest I can get up here is $850 plus install cost. The problem I hve with them is the at $1500 you have no guarantee the your family will know where you are. The activation rate is still very poor. You dont have to read many accident reports to see that they often dont go off...

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A1Skinner wrote:

Hammer wrote:

Mapleflt wrote:With the update from COPA spelling out the closing days of the old 121.5 kits one had to wonder what options exist other then a $1500 “investment” in a somewhat less then perfect alternative.

??

I bought a 406 ELT for less than $500 US some years ago. Maybe they've gone up a bunch?

A 406 PLB won't self activate, but I guess as long as you're alive enough to warrant a rescue, you can push two buttons.

Even at $1500, not having your family wonder what happened for weeks...or years...seems pretty cheap. We are flying airplanes after all...it's not like any of us are scrounging money for groceries.

The cheapest I can get up here is $850 plus install cost. The problem I hve with them is the at $1500 you have no guarantee the your family will know where you are. The activation rate is still very poor. You dont have to read many accident reports to see that they often dont go off...

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Well they ain't perfect, that's for sure. Mine goes off when I'm unloading the plane in the hangar...no idea why.

Seems like there's this thing called Spider Tracks if you want a belt and suspenders...

One thing I wonder about the spider tracks: since they run on ships power, how do they keep transmitting after a crash if the battery is toast? Seems like the one downside to me.
And ya, the 406s either seem to go off when you dont want them to, or not when you need them to...

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So it seems we at least agree there isn’t a perfect system, so given that is a 406elt the better of all options ?

Set them off manually with a remote as soon as things start getting real. There is no downside.

Mechanical switches are 100 year old absurdities.

It's been time for reliable electronic switches for 50 or 60 years now.

Modern marine units have relay functionality that allows reception, re-transmit, and location as well, and even voice broadcast to allow anyone in the vicinity to get coordinates. I'll never figure out why everyone was so hot and bothered for a system that only the annointed could retrieve.

Aviation is left with none of these features, even though they could easily be added. Instead, in keeping with GA Tradition, featureless boxes low on functionality and reliabity, high on recalls...

I use spot for friends n family, and a plb on me for reelz. The box in the back? It works, but the only way I can tell is with a 500 mHz oscilloscope with a decoder, and check the hex code with https://www.cospas-sarsat.int/en/beacon-decode-program

Needlessly dumb, unverifiable system that could have been a great system.

Mapleflt wrote:So it seems we at least agree there isn’t a perfect system, so given that is a 406elt the better of all options ?

Ain't it the only option to be legal? I'm guessing you good folks up north are required to have a ELT in the airplane, and since 121.5 has one foot in the grave and the other foot on a banana peel, what's left other than 406 ELT, regardless of how well it works?

Imperfect as 406 ELT's might be, they're a WHOLE lot better than the 121.5's they replaced, especially if you wire them into a GPS for positioning. (Show me a pilot flying without a GPS and I'll show you a moron who isn't smart enough to access several billion dollars worth of infrastructure for a few hundred bucks out of pocket.) Put a manual activation switch in the panel and hit it when the engine quits and you should never have to rely on the problematic inertia switch.

I fly with a 406 ELT, a Spot Tracker, and a 406 PLB in my vest. It's not perfect, but in all likelihood a crash in the country I fly over will result in a recovery, not a rescue. Short of a twin-turbine and a parachute, I'm not sure how to change that in any meaningful way.

Bottom line is that if your airplane goes down in the bush, there are a LOT of scenarios where you're just flat-out phucked. That's the reality of it, and other people knowing you went down won't change a thing.

If other people can help, a ELT is a good start, and a PLB is a good backup. Engine maintenance probably beats both out for survivability.

Buy an ACK 04 ELT, have it installed, and have it connected to your onboard GPS, either panel mount or portable.

These units have a remote switch. Mount that front and center. When the shit hits the fan, push the button on that remote. Within 50 secons, someone in the Rescue Coordination Center will know who you are, where you are, and that you’re in an emergency.

Oh, and when you have the thing mounted, mount it according to required specs. NOT with some POS Velcro attachment, NOT on some wimpy sheet metal shelf that flexes in turbulence, NOT on a shelf that comes loose in a five G deceleration.

Want to know why so many ELTs fail to activates? Because they weren’t properly mounted.

Follow the above, properly mount the thing (it isn’t that hard), and, if the need arises, push the button prior to “landing”.

Been there, done that, ain’t that hard.

MTV

mtv wrote:Buy an ACK 04 ELT, have it installed, and have it connected to your onboard GPS, either panel mount or portable.

These units have a remote switch. Mount that front and center. When the shit hits the fan, push the button on that remote. Within 50 secons, someone in the Rescue Coordination Center will know who you are, where you are, and that you’re in an emergency.

Oh, and when you have the thing mounted, mount it according to required specs. NOT with some POS Velcro attachment, NOT on some wimpy sheet metal shelf that flexes in turbulence, NOT on a shelf that comes loose in a five G deceleration.

Want to know why so many ELTs fail to activates? Because they weren’t properly mounted.

Follow the above, properly mount the thing (it isn’t that hard), and, if the need arises, push the button prior to “landing”.

Been there, done that, ain’t that hard.

MTV

FWIW, it's not legal to hook it to a handheld GPS, and it hs to be taken to an avionics shop to hook it to a panel mount. A lot of extra $$$. I've grilled transport Canada a few times about it a few times as to why I as an AME am not allowed to hook up a single wire and makes S&R just a lot easier! But I regress...

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A1Skinner wrote:

mtv wrote:Buy an ACK 04 ELT, have it installed, and have it connected to your onboard GPS, either panel mount or portable.

These units have a remote switch. Mount that front and center. When the shit hits the fan, push the button on that remote. Within 50 secons, someone in the Rescue Coordination Center will know who you are, where you are, and that you’re in an emergency.

Oh, and when you have the thing mounted, mount it according to required specs. NOT with some POS Velcro attachment, NOT on some wimpy sheet metal shelf that flexes in turbulence, NOT on a shelf that comes loose in a five G deceleration.

Want to know why so many ELTs fail to activates? Because they weren’t properly mounted.

Follow the above, properly mount the thing (it isn’t that hard), and, if the need arises, push the button prior to “landing”.

Been there, done that, ain’t that hard.

MTV

FWIW, it's not legal to hook it to a handheld GPS, and it hs to be taken to an avionics shop to hook it to a panel mount. A lot of extra $$$. I've grilled transport Canada a few times about it a few times as to why I as an AME am not allowed to hook up a single wire and makes S&R just a lot easier! But I regress...

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Man that truly sucks. So is TC trying to make search and rescue less effective?

Perfectly legal in US.

Even in an inadvertent activation, this setup saves. RCC can look at the location, and, since it’s at an airport, just call airport mgt to verify no emergency.

But, if you have a for real emergency, this gives RCC your precise location from the git go.

MTV

Ya it really does suck. They just like to prove they are boss as much as possible, no matter how it relates to safety.

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Seems like there's this thing called Spider Tracks if you want a belt and suspenders...[/quote]



Was using a spot...but this far north, to many satellite blind spots. Spider Tracks is great. Shorter track spacing....a lot shorter than the Spot! Gives altitude and airspeed for the folks who I’ve given access to the app. Uses ships power and automatically sends an S.O.S. 20 minutes after loosing ships power. There has been a few times I’ve neglected to cancel tracking before opening the main breaker...if in an area with cellular data coverage can log in to spider tracks to cancel the S.O.S., if no cell service, power up again start a track and then cancel...

I’m using the Kannad ELT. Bought it for its built in back up antenna. If ambulatory and in an inaccessible area or invisible to aerial search and rescue I could walk out...the down side to the Kannad is the antenna can not be mounted within the airframe of a tube and fabric airframe. Emailed the manufacturer in France asking to deviate from their installation instructions. The email contained information on Superflights system 7 which is signal transparent. Maybe if I’d emailed them in French...I may have received the answer I wanted...



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m_moyle wrote:Seems like there's this thing called Spider Tracks if you want a belt and suspenders...

Was using a spot...but this far north, to many satellite blind spots. Spider Tracks is great. Shorter track spacing....a lot shorter than the Spot! Gives altitude and airspeed for the folks who I’ve given access to the app. Uses ships power and automatically sends an S.O.S. 20 minutes after loosing ships power. There has been a few times I’ve neglected to cancel tracking before opening the main breaker...if in an area with cellular data coverage can log in to spider tracks to cancel the S.O.S., if no cell service, power up again start a track and then cancel...

I’m using the Kannad ELT. Bought it for its built in back up antenna. If ambulatory and in an inaccessible area or invisible to aerial search and rescue I could walk out...the down side to the Kannad is the antenna can not be mounted within the airframe of a tube and fabric airframe. Emailed the manufacturer in France asking to deviate from their installation instructions. The email contained information on Superflights system 7 which is signal transparent. Maybe if I’d emailed them in French...I may have received the answer I wanted...



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro[/quote]Thanks for the info on the spider tracks Mark.
FWIW, everyone has told me that the 406 is a strong enough signal that it will still send without and antenna connected. That's why most dint come with a backup antenna.

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A1Skinner wrote:FWIW, it's not legal to hook it to a handheld GPS, and it hs to be taken to an avionics shop to hook it to a panel mount. A lot of extra $$$. I've grilled transport Canada a few times about it a few times as to why I as an AME am not allowed to hook up a single wire and makes S&R just a lot easier! But I regress...

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If you're not a commercial operator, I'm curious why you'd bother following that rule...which of course you do!

Seems to be the epitome of a regulation where the punishment is irrelevant compared to the gain.

Hammer wrote:

A1Skinner wrote:FWIW, it's not legal to hook it to a handheld GPS, and it hs to be taken to an avionics shop to hook it to a panel mount. A lot of extra $$$. I've grilled transport Canada a few times about it a few times as to why I as an AME am not allowed to hook up a single wire and makes S&R just a lot easier! But I regress...

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If you're not a commercial operator, I'm curious why you'd bother following that rule...which of course you do!

Seems to be the epitome of a regulation where the punishment is irrelevant compared to the gain.

I guess it's not worth losing my license and livelihood over... in reality a 406 really makes the search area very small.

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