Hey all,

Thought I’d put a PIREP in for a pretty slick little tie down system.

Got these for a new addition in the fleet, very nice and quick to adjust, faster than most others, and also a very firm lock. just pull, button to release, rubber coated hooks similar to that on a few commercial “aircraft downs” off spruce with the same north of 500lbs of load per tiedown.

Would recommend for anything smaller than a 172 type



https://www.homedepot.com/p/ProGrip-3-8 ... &gclsrc=ds

$12 each

Just make sure to redo the knots on them, tied a bowline on the hook end and a stopped knot on the other end

That open hook in gusty winds is begging for trouble
DENNY

I was thinking about that, noticed spruce has lots of tie downs with the same type hooks, no that means too much

However…

For the champ if it bends the steel hook to the point it lets go would the plane would have been destroyed ether way?

I debated swapping some marine stainless carabiners/shackles to replace the hooks, but how much force do we need to guard against and how much force till the wood spars blow anyways?


Any good documented/photoed cases where a light plane let loose of the open hooks?

This plastic bodied gizmo is very nice, I have a couple similar. But breaking strength rating of 500 lbs would mean working limit of 160-250 lbs. In slow flight your wing is providing much more lift than that. I'd guess these would be fine for tie downs in a totally enclosed hangar.

Not to be a Debbie downer, but what is wrong with a simple rope?

In enough wind to fail that tie down, would a plane like a champ or cub or 152 not likely end up totaled anyways?

Basic 3 strand works great, no doubt, but with how most planes have just a few loose knots, I doubt they’d take a hurricane or full microburst ether

Could do full 10,000lb dyneema with beefy stainless marine shackles, but at what point does I just end in a totaled aircraft attached to a sweet tie down?

The only photos or situations I’ve seen where a plane broke its tiedowns was a 172 that was tied down with legit clothes line and a microburst hit
There was a PA28 next to it that didn’t move, it had ratchet straps with basic hooks

I’d be honestly interested in documented situations where a tie like this, or similar ones failed on a small plane like a champ or 152 etc

I have an assortment of that style of tie downs. Ones in my kit are rated as low as 100 lbs and as high as 1500. They work great.

I love gizmos in general, always looking for the best mousetrap per se

I have looked at Tie Boss and a few others, but an open hook attachment is a hard no for me. As much as I want to find the “new wheel”, I truly think the old fashion rope is the best way to go. Let’s face it, if done properly it self tightens with more tension.

Maybe someday I will find something that I am willing to trust with my airplane’s wellbeing, but that day has not come yet and not for lack of looking.

I agree a properly secured 3 strand line is awsome, but on most ramps I don’t see many that are there for more than feel goods

One of the things with ratchet straps, I’m not a fan as they don’t really give, but in a major wind I’d trust open eye hardware store ratchet straps over tier 1 climbing rope or morning lines tied by most pilots, based on what I’ve seen on the ramp at least

Ya, most every year in Anchorage, Palmer, Wasilla. Go to Flyout Alaska on facebook and every time the wind starts blowing the open hook ratchet strap planes are getting loose. Here is a video about how to tie down aircraft in winds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCcZ-K8bROs A pa 18 will fly with a 1,000 load from 3 point attitude between 42-45 mph depending on the gear. Those straps are fine for lunch brake or if you are going to be around. But not for leaving a plane unattended for a few days or in the wind.
DENNY

Yacht braid or climbing rope in about 9-11mm. Bowline or two round turns and two half hitches. Rolling hitch if you want to get fancy.

I would never use chains or straps because of the shock load with any rocking. Nor hooks.

Not a fan of the claw etc either. 18 inches of rebar or angle iron with a chain link welded on top.

I’m tying down 100k$ and want to be relaxed when I am away from it.

YMMV.

DENNY wrote:Ya, most every year in Anchorage, Palmer, Wasilla. Go to Flyout Alaska on facebook and every time the wind starts blowing the open hook ratchet strap planes are getting loose. Here is a video about how to tie down aircraft in winds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCcZ-K8bROs A pa 18 will fly with a 1,000 load from 3 point attitude between 42-45 mph depending on the gear. Those straps are fine for lunch brake or if you are going to be around. But not for leaving a plane unattended for a few days or in the wind.
DENNY

That’s a lot of conversation, I’m sure good points, but any good time stamps to fast forward to where they have some photos of the hooks opening up, or putting weights on them to fail point?

Here was a major microburst, saw it first hand, well kinda as I was in the building, with the rain and all we couldn’t see ANYTHING, but once it finished this was the aftermath

Cessna had some crappy lines tied to it, typically pilot knot work, the two little lines with better knots on the wings broke, the more solid line on the tail the quickie knot just let go


The PA 28 had generic ratchet straps with open hooks, only damage it took was some light paint scratches from the other plane







Just did a quick google search “Cessna on the ramp” and this is what I found, also what I mostly find on any given ramp








Yes a dock line PROPERLY tied is very hard to beat, but when I walk any ramp the majority of ropes tiedowns have this stoner tie down job like these planes, they are tied down in spirit only, now compare that to most planes I see with simple “idiot proof tie” device like a dollar store ratchet strap or one of the quick tie things, sure open hooks but they are often waaaay more secured than the 5 million pound line that’s got a 5lb “knot”

Guess it’s really mostly boiling down to a balancing act between convenience and thoroughness


Good example, carry pistols

Bob says to only carry a near full size pistol with 18+ rounds and AT LEAST one extra mag and a flash light, IWB on a kydex holster with a nice ridged gun belt, and I 100% agree that in a fire fight that’s ideal

Tom however likes a subcompact with maybe 8-9 rounds in a leather pocket carry holster, no flashlight or reload, he is under gunned in comparison

But real world, especially for a “quick walk” or checking the mail, hot summer, or just want to wear light weight shorts and a T, Tom is much more likely to have his pistol on him while Bob may leave it on the night stand.


I’m sure everyone here terminates all their lines in a proper crown splice and can tie a bowline backward with their eyes closed, however based on what I’ve seen on most every ramp I d been on, most would be served with a more dummy proof and fast/easy system, even if at the sacrifice of some potential strength

*I love good rope work, Im the guy who walks his dog on a dyneema leash I made up with Mobius Brummel splices on both ends, because I’m a nerd when it comes to stuff like that lol

I've had great luck with the SlideDowns on my 185. It's been through some pretty bad wx on the ground at OSH when I was unable to move it and they held up. Been on a couple 30-50 MPH overnights without a hangar and they worked great.

I leave them in the plan all the time as they are easy to use and lightweight.

Sal the owner is a good guy as well.

MW

I use hardware store type straps, aka "bike binders" like you'd use for tying down a dirt bike in your pickup-
but with (for lack of a better term) slide buckles, not rachets.
I shitcanned the open hooks, I tied a big loop of the strap itself on the long end & use a shackle on the buckle end.
Easy to store in the plane, quick to use, and seems pretty secure--
way more secure than a lot of the shitty ropes & funky knots I see others using.

Found it!

Good break test on ratchet straps

They had one with the similar hook that failed at the hook, most the strap failed before the open hook

11min 17sec in



Hook gave out at 1,625lbs
2 straps, if I’m sciencing right, that’s 3,250lbs, MGTOW on the plane is 1,220lbs



At 12min 35
they test working load at the rated strengths, didn’t go to failure
All held as advertised, no major failure, seemed the straps stretched more than the hooks

It is not the that the hooks fail, it is that the open hook will come off when the plane shifts and bounces. It is usually the ratchet mechanism that fails (cheap wallmart stuff). A quick look turned up 2 jan 2022 for a post on Flyout Alaska. Merrill Field does not allow tie down with ratchet straps. https://www.muni.org/Departments/merril ... Letter.pdf I have seen my share of crappy ropes and knots also.
DENNY

93K -- Is it possible to remove the open hook and replace it with a carabiner? Looks like you'd have to bend the hook unless the pin it's attached to is removable.

DENNY wrote:It is not the that the hooks fail, it is that the open hook will come off when the plane shifts and bounces. It is usually the ratchet mechanism that fails (cheap wallmart stuff). A quick look turned up 2 jan 2022 for a post on Flyout Alaska. Merrill Field does not allow tie down with ratchet straps. https://www.muni.org/Departments/merril ... Letter.pdf I have seen my share of crappy ropes and knots also.
DENNY

Watching that video, these look like ratchets



From how it’s off the line and the tails, looks like a ratchet, plane is trying to fly and the ratchets (if that’s what they are) are not letting go




This one really looks like ratchets, but they are still attached, looks like it did a full loop on them?


Lots of airports are too many chiefs and not enough Indians, so the airport big kahuna “banning” something doesn’t mean too much.

I’m game to learn what I don’t know, but with camera phones being in every pocket for decades are there some good photos of ratchet/hooks failing on tiedowns?

Best I could find was that torture test and that would have snapped my spars before the hooks bent to the point they couldn’t hold the plane

Based on the looks of it both planes are possibly totaled due to crazy winds, so at that point is to make sure the wreckage stays in the same spot?

Biggest thing I learned from that video is if winds are looking to get that high plane needs to be elsewhere or be a write off

StuBob wrote:93K -- Is it possible to remove the open hook and replace it with a carabiner? Looks like you'd have to bend the hook unless the pin it's attached to is removable.

Wouldn’t be too much work to swap them out.

I wanted to see a good reason to do it first, hell my default answer is overkill the shit out of everything, but it seems the ratchet strap / hook has become a boogie man in GA, and I’m that kid who just grabs the damn flashlight and looks under the bed first

Bolt cutters and some carabiners or shackles is no big deal, but I want to do things based on facts not dogma