Our 1955 C180 has a lot of slop with the yoke rotating relative to the control tube. It's bolted on with two AN3 bolts which measure 0.20" on my crappy caliper (spec says 0.189) whereas the holes measure 0.21" giving 0.010" of play. It is very annoying. There are supposed to be rivets, 0413216 and -4, but I can't find the diameters of those rivets. Does anyone know if they are fatter than an AN3 and will eliminate the slop?

Thanks!

I would not put anything but a bolt in that hole!!! Think of whoever has to work on it next. Put a thin wall sleeve or bigger bolt in the hole.
DENNY

The original solid steel rivets, (the upset end is hollowed) are .215. A number 3 drill bit at .213 fits in with slight clearance. If I were me, I would install an HL220-6-X Hi-Lock Pin. (I have not determined the length yet, (perfect fit no slop) and an MS 21042L3 nut.

Far stronger than the bolt, easily removable, and actually fits the hole as opposed to a bolt.

That HiLok has a diameter of 0.217 and 0.218 which gives an interference of 0.002". According to this, interference fits in steel are not recommended.

Page 7, Paragragh G.1. Hole Preparation

http://www.jet-tek.com/hi-lok-pins/Hilo ... lation.pdf

Ace007 wrote:... It's bolted on with two AN3 bolts which measure 0.20" on my crappy caliper (spec says 0.189) whereas the holes measure 0.21" giving 0.010" of play.....

Are you sure the slop is all in the bolt?
Those universal joints often loosen up over time.
They're not cheap either.

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hotrod180 wrote:

Ace007 wrote:... It's bolted on with two AN3 bolts which measure 0.20" on my crappy caliper (spec says 0.189) whereas the holes measure 0.21" giving 0.010" of play.....

Are you sure the slop is all in the bolt?
Those universal joints often loosen up over time.
They're not cheap either.

Dude, read the original post.

Guys, he's talking about the yoke end, not the u joint end.
I like Richs idea.

As mentioned earlier, the originals were solid rivets with hollow ends rolled over.
Mine have had an3 bolts in them and I've never had any slop. Even without the bolt, they fit pretty snug. I'm having a hard time imagining enough force applied in flight to cause the yoke to slip with two torqued bolts in there.

That makes me wonder about the u-joint and sprocket at the back because those DO wear out and introduce slop. But that's not what we're talking about.

I wonder if you could put roll pins in there a rivets or bolts.

Ace007 wrote:....Dude, read the original post.

Oops.... sorry dude, misread the problem.

Curious here - every one keeps talking about "holes."
I would suspect - from my long distance view - that there ought to be an oval shape from the "racking" left and right with the yoke. - Could easily be wrong agin.
Just looking at what I can see - think I would make a "firm" fitting sleeve to go inside the shaft - tack weld the end or pin forward if insert is long enough - then match drill through the yoke for matching diameters for close fit of ANxxxx Bolt/Screw.

Hopefully All In Accordance with AC43.xxxx or Cessna repair Xyz

Just my view as an old retired Sr, Mgr. of Mfg. Eng. Departments for AMAT till 2009.
Have also "puttered" around a bunch of aviation shops since 1957.

Just sayin
Wannabe helpful

If replacement rivets for this job are too much money (yes, I know they are 60 bucks or whatever because everyone complains about it when they get their yokes reconditioned), then the OP sets the bar pretty low. Possibly too low for anything readily certifiable. So I guess the OP is asking about a kludge regardless of certification status of the repair.

Ace Hardware. 1/4" mild steel dowel (they usually have A36). Turn to diameter -.002", or drill out holes to fit. Cut to length, perhaps .250 longer than diameter. Heat cherry red and let cool slowly to dead soft with a plumbing torch. Assemble, give it a couple seconds with a rivet gun and bucking bar each side, using a broad impact mandrel. About $6. Is that cheeep enough?

Steel rivnuts are cheeep too, aside from the applicator if you don't happen to have a few lying around. They will be easily removed later on.

I used NAS623 pan head screws on the yokes of my old 170. 10-32 but I don't remember the length. I liked the look of them better than a bolt and I didn't want to use those over priced rivits.

http://m.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/nas623.php

lesuther wrote:then the OP sets the bar pretty low. Possibly too low for anything readily certifiable. So I guess the OP is asking about a kludge regardless of certification status of the repair.

Huh? Does no one read any more? I'm the OP and I asked specifically what the diameter of the factory rivet was so I can buy them and possibly eliminate the slop. I didn't complain of the price and certainly didn't ask for an illegal kludge. Not helpful.

Thanks, richpiney, for answering what I was asking. Very helpful.

You are right- my mistake.

I do have a set of gauge pins if you want to borrow them to determine the actual diameter you are working with.

The original solid steel rivets, (the upset end is hollowed) are .215. A number 3 drill bit at .213 fits in with slight clearance. If I were me, I would install an HL220-6-X Hi-Lock Pin. (I have not determined the length yet, (perfect fit no slop) and an MS 21042L3 nut.

Far stronger than the bolt, easily removable, and actually fits the hole as opposed to a bolt.
richpiney online

Here is what I was talking about. Zero slop as opposed to an AN Bolt. Tap in with a rubber mallet.
I ended up using an AN21045-3 nut.


[img]https://backcountrypilot.org/images/originalphotos/2430/5840/7fd20df943227e14522237bc.jpg[/img


Just an idea...

How do you tighten that up with out the bolt spinning?

How do you tighten that up with out the bolt spinning?

A Hi Lok pin has a place to insert an Allen wrench on the threaded end, in the event it was to try and spin.

The usual application is with an aluminum or steel collar that the end shears off when a predetermined torque is reached.

Typically you would use a special ratchet with a hole through the center, allowing you to restrain the pin while threading on the collar with your socket, or just using a wrench.

Wonder what people do to make them get loose. My 54 has about 3900 total time and nice and tight.