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Solar Panel Questions

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Solar Panel Questions

This guy was a spammer. Leaving the responses up though. -Zzz
Last edited by Zzz on Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:23 am, edited 3 times in total.
Reason: Deleted spam post with links
cesep4 offline
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Re: Solar Panel Questions

If you want to keep it simple get some panels and something like a goal zero battery, built in inverter with 2 plugs and lots of safety. I use for power outages, works great. Think they will accept up to 300W off panels.

Alternatively if you want to learn a lot... there are a ton of diy solar designs for systems with batteries and AC inverters in the marine and van conversion worlds (google "sprinter van solar system", lots of great step by step YouTube). Components are readily available, lots of battery options. Fair warning I built one of these for fun and when I was done it was twice the size of a goal zero and cost me just as much--before labor :roll: It probably won't catch fire?

My backup doesn't touch the house system, lots of ways that can go wrong, and not just for you and your house. If I was going to go that route I'd do professionally installed grid tied solar with a couple of powerwalls and a gateway. I've used one, amazing solution, $$$
stretch offline
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Re: Solar Panel Questions

Voltage depends on your necessary amperage draw. As the voltage doubles, your amperage draw halves….

Figure out your needs first.
skyward II offline
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Re: Solar Panel Questions

From dealing with this in a open water boat, LG makes good panels, and you’ll need lithium batteries to capture that energy.

Those panels are worthless if you can’t quickly capture what they are gathering
NineThreeKilo offline
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Re: Solar Panel Questions

cesep4 wrote:okay, I have a few questions about solar. I've always had this dream of having solar panels on my house, all hooked into my house electric, grid-tied, just so I wouldn't have to pay for electricity. However, that seems too unrealistic, financially speaking. To go completely off solar, I would need a system that could generate 600+ kilowatts a month. So I got a kill-a-watt and figured out how much my tv, computer, other electronics use. So the new plan is to get a couple of solar panels on my roof then bring the wiring into the house, probably my living room, have batteries set- up somehow in there, and have an outlet where I could plug all my electronics into. So that's the plan, now the questions:

1. Do inverters have AC outlet plugs coming out of them? I can't seem to figure this one out or do they need to be wired with an AC plug coming out of them in order for me to plug in 120-volt appliances.

2. When you do a solar setup, the inverter is plugged into the battery, correct? Every time I see diagrams, it's like the inverter and battery are not directly connected like you would use one or the other, not both. Then how do you use the battery?

3. What is with voltage. Do I need 12v or 24v or 48v? I think I read that the voltage has to do with how far the electricity has to travel. For my needs it would be from the living room roof, right down into the living room, so not that far, so should I go by 12v when buying parts?

4. Some batteries need venting, these batteries will be indoors and I think I read the gel batteries, or is it deep-cycle or both don't need venting. So they would be okay indoors? Eventually, I may have a lean-to greenhouse attached to the living room and I could keep the batteries outdoors in the winter in there, with wires coming inside the house but for summer the heat might destroy the batteries, right?

5. Could I really plug some solar panel system directly into an AC outlet in my house and have it lower my
energy bill? That's what these plug-and-play systems supposedly do but if that were the case then wouldn't everyone do it because getting solar hardwired is much more expensive.


Courierguy is our resident expert, but until he gets on here to answers your questions, here is what I have. Most of the remote cabins in our area are powered by solar. In my case, I am using a good quality 3000 watt inverter powered by 4-500+ amp 6 volt batteries (not automotive batteries,124 # a piece), with a generator back-up that can be used to charge the batteries if necessary + 2-solar panels. My high electrical usage is a toaster, electric coffee maker, and microwave, only one of these is used at a time, fridge and stove are propane, LED lights and electronics are a non-issue.

The cost of all of this is pretty high, there is no way to justify it if there was an alternative, the cost of the proper batteries alone will probably surprise you.

Beware of the problems of installing solar panels on your roof, they need to be done properly, or eventual leaks could be a problem.

1. Most of the smaller inexpensive inverters I have seen do have 110 plugs built in, those that don't are
meant to be wired from the unit, you can decide to wire into a panel, or even just a common house
receptacle if you choose.

2. The inverter and batteries are always wired together.

3. For just running some simple electronics I would think 12 volt would be sufficient.

4. I am just guessing, but my thought would be to put them in the greenhouse out of the way, I have no idea
on if heat would be an issue.

5. To do it properly, in my mind it would not be cost effective.
steve offline
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Re: Solar Panel Questions

Perhaps not applicable to your situation, but ...

We don't use wind or solar at home because the cost of electricity is fairly low here and heavily subsidized by government (otherwise nobody could afford to live here in Nunavut). But at our cabins, far from commercial power, we have simple solar set-ups. One cabin has two glass-mat batteries, two 50-watt panels and a little 175-watt inverter. LED lights and electronics run directly from 12-volts. The inverter only powers a tiny pump for our propane-fired (shower) water heater. Cooking is by propane and heat is by oil or wood.

The other cabin has one 80-watt panel, two 8D "Cat" batteries (not ideal but they were free and have lasted 20-years so far) and a 700-watt inverter that is rarely used. Again, LED lights, propane, wood and oil. We also have a 200-watt wind generator but mechanical devices can be problematic I'd rather have more solar and dispose of the wind generator next time it fails.

Our batteries are indoors because they have to be kept reasonably warm. Venting does not seems to be a concern, certainly not with the sealed batteries but even the so-called "flooded" batteries don't vent enough gas to be a concern.

An advantage of the solar panels is that they produce just enough power even in the dark months to keep our flooded batteries from freezing. They really pump out the power on cold, sunny days with reflection off the snow.

Yes, Courierguy is the solar electricity guru on this site. Also lots of information on the internet.
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Re: Solar Panel Questions

The OP currently (pun intended I guess) has grid power at his home I imagine? Then WHY spend a penny on batteries of any sort! For those who say they want an independent power source for when the zombie apocalypse hits, I don't have a response #-o For the rest of us, spending a fraction of the money involved in any significant battery system on a propane powered generator for the rare times the power briefly goes out would be money better spent by far.

Batteries have their place, off grid. The OP need to consult with a certified PV installer, and get a system installed for him. It will be much cheaper in the long run then throwing his money away experimenting with improper components. Before I'd spend 500 fooling around, I'd spend 5 K on something that will produce useful amounts of power for the next few decades.

As I type this, my office is being heated by a 750 watt radiant panel heater, a 100 watt floor mat, and yesterday's residual heat of the 5 KW electric boiler in the radiant floor system. Point being it's cozy as hell (21 out, wind blowing 30+) and it's all being done with electricity I produced this summer, excess to my needs at the time, and stored (unlike a battery) at 100% efficiency in my utilities grid, which functions as my battery.....but besides it's 100% efficiency, it's also of infinite size/capacity, never wears out, takes up zero room onsite, and only costs me $5.00 per month! Plus, I also get trained and well equipped crews on standby 24/7 just in case something goes wrong, included in that 5 bucks, and you want to talk about batteries!! By the time you run PV thru batteries and an inverter, you lose efficiency at every step, you put 1 watt into a battery, and you don't get back 1 watt. Even worse when time goes by. Direct grid tie is so simple and fool proof it takes some people a bit of time to fully appreciate it, being off grid for 28 years makes me more appreciative then most.
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Re: Solar Panel Questions

Thanks for that post Courierguy. I knew you'd come through and put it all into perspective.

Our commercial power system here is small and self-contained (no power lines outside the community). The power is very reliable but I do have a generator just in case the 60-year old diesel power plant burns to the ground one day. It's happened in other arctic communities over the years and I don't need to tell you what a disaster that can be in mid-winter when it's dark and the wind chill is minus 60. The entire community of 1,500 would have to be evacuated.

I wish we had the option to be grid-tied.
NunavutPA-12 offline
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Re: Solar Panel Questions

NunavutPA-12 wrote:Thanks for that post Courierguy. I knew you'd come through and put it all into perspective.

Our commercial power system here is small and self-contained (no power lines outside the community). The power is very reliable but I do have a generator just in case the 60-year old diesel power plant burns to the ground one day. It's happened in other arctic communities over the years and I don't need to tell you what a disaster that can be in mid-winter when it's dark and the wind chill is minus 60. The entire community of 1,500 would have to be evacuated.

I wish we had the option to be grid-tied.
I wish that I could be grid tied and have other cost me $5/mo. Here in Alberta it cost me approx $180/mo just to be tied into the grid, called a transmission fee. That's usually about 80% of my bill. If I tie solar in I can't end up net zero, because I can only sell to the grid what my usage would be during non solar season. So I have the big cost of a solar system, and the transmission fee. It basically makes it extremely expensive and you'd never recoup your money, unless you go totally off the grid, which has its own problems for us here... love the idea of solar, and have a huge roof on my shop to do it, but unless rules change I simply can't afford it.
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Re: Solar Panel Questions

First thing you need is a calculator. Calculate the return on investment, and then discard the whole idea! :D

If you have natural gas out there, you might be further ahead buying a natural gas fired generator and leaving the grid all together.

I recently sold a compressor driven by a natural gas converted 300 CID Ford in-line six. I regret that I didn’t explore the idea of putting a generator in place of the compressor.
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Re: Solar Panel Questions

I've spent the last 3 decades playing with solar power at various remote transmitter sites, and the first reality is the person trying to sell you solar power is usually full of BS. You will need a lot of batteries (1 site I have worked at has 39.4 tons of them, another site has about 20 tons, our smallest battery bank is only about 3 tons), Maintenance expense is constant, and the panels and batteries do not last forever. In the long run NOTHING is cheaper or more reliable than commercial power. Just my 2 cents worth.
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Re: Solar Panel Questions

NunavutPA-12 wrote:Thanks for that post Courierguy. I knew you'd come through and put it all into perspective.

Our commercial power system here is small and self-contained (no power lines outside the community). The power is very reliable but I do have a generator just in case the 60-year old diesel power plant burns to the ground one day. It's happened in other arctic communities over the years and I don't need to tell you what a disaster that can be in mid-winter when it's dark and the wind chill is minus 60. The entire community of 1,500 would have to be evacuated.

I wish we had the option to be grid-tied.


Your situation is a great case for batteries! If I was in a similar situation, I'd have a set of batteries on a auto trickle charger, just enough to hopefully get thru a couple days while they repair the diesel gen set. After that, all bets are off. Most people have a totally unrealistic idea of how big a battery bank it takes to operate most things, the inevitable result being shortened battery life by too many deep discharges and long periods at a low state of charge.
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Re: Solar Panel Questions

I'm completely off grid at the beach in Mexico. Modern house. Air conditioning and pool are the big power consumers.

I don't recommend it. For us, it made sense because the cost of the land was low enough to make up for the lack of infrastructure. Well, that and the natural beauty of the area. But the single most expensive component in an off grid system is the batteries. And they are consumable. So it's not like you buy them once and you're good for 25 years.

We are definitely banking on utility power coming to our area someday. I don't want to be in the business of buying batteries forever.

OTOH, we get to live here. https://airbnb.com/h/casa-isa

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Re: Solar Panel Questions

Like others here, I'm grid-connected, but would LOVE to add solar power, if it made any sense at all... However, our electricity is provided by a Co-Op, which is exempted by state law from having to buy back any excess production. We also have a reasonably small ($20/month) "transmission fee" which is charged for access to the system, whether you use any electricity or not.

I've worked the math every way possible, and because I cannot sell any "excess production" back to the utility (though they would happily allow me to "donate" it to them), there is no scenario where it makes financial sense to install solar power. Every solar option I've looked at raises my cost for electricity. And that's without factoring in any periodic component replacements...

Instead, we invested in a propane-powered 20KW generator that can run the entire house and garage (even with the RV plugged in and running at max load). The cost of the generator and installation was not cheap, but it was considerably lower than the cost of one of those back-up battery banks ("the wall" or similar tech). We've had several multi-day power outages, and if it weren't for the sound the generator makes when running (fairly quiet at the back of the house), you might not even notice that the power was out. That automatic transfer switch is pretty slick. Power goes out, and in about 5 seconds, the generator is running, and we're back up until grid power returns for 30+ seconds. Pretty slick!
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Re: Solar Panel Questions

For sure, my situation is about as favorable as can be : all of my gear, the PV, wind, and hydro systems, were all bought at discount back when I was installing the stuff, and my labor was free. And, I just squeaked by with my utility, being grandfathered in on their older regs. Buying at retail, paying for the installation, maybe adding some financing costs, and with a less generous buy back policy with your utility, is a whole different deal. When I would get a call from some guy "wanting to go off the grid" because he thought his power bill was too high and he thought his utility was screwing him, I'd quickly end the call, especially if they started talking politics! Once you start talking 50 K, and up, for grid connection, which can happen pretty quick with a lot of rural property, being off grid is something to consider. Not for everybody, you may have to get your hands dirty, and learn how to run the system as efficiently as possible, and many don't want to be bothered.

Once the utility runs lines to you, they have a right of way, and that will more quickly encourage further development in a rural area that was once "off grid." That may be what some people want, others may not. The cost of a big off grid system can largely be offset by the land being cheaper, which doesn't matter if you're already built in town, just saying. I do know in the 3 years I got totally out of the alternative energy biz (always a sideline to my craning biz) I miss the new opportunities to fly into a remote jobsite! Here's just a few.....
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