I'm going to put $3k into my '74 CE-172-M in the next 30 days and thought that I'd troll for some advice.

The things on my list that fall into that range are the folding read seats from Atlee Dodge (http://www.fadodge.com/customseats.html); the beef-ed up nose fork from Airglass (http://www.airglas.com/nose_fork/index.html) - including the new tires and tubes; or the JPI 700F Engine monitor with fuel flow (http://www.jpinstruments.com/edm_700.html)

I'm leaning (pun intended) towards the JPI 700F.

Recommendations?

Don

The JPI's are good instruments but the thing that really kills it for them is their customer service. If you ever have to call them and talk to them on the phone, you'll wish you were at the DMV instead.

I'd look into EI out of Bend, OR.

Don,

Do you have the Power Flow exhaust? If you can stretch your budget a little, that would be the best bang for buck. Just a thought.

CAVU

Jr.CubBuilder wrote:Put those folding seats in, the plane will be 20lbs lighter, and getting the stock seat in and out is a royal P in the A.

I'm not running any backseat right now. It's not even on the W&B.

CAVU wrote:Don,

Do you have the Power Flow exhaust? If you can stretch your budget a little, that would be the best bang for buck. Just a thought.

CAVU

I don't want to do that right now because I'm planning on going to a 180 hp next year

What type of flying do you do?

My blind answer is a garmin 396 with XM weather and a Telex 50D headset(s).

-Todd Giencke

If I were you I'd spend the money on VG's for ravi's 140...it's a lot cheaper than the other options and you'll have fun putting them on.

First thing I would do, if you don't already have them, is install a set of BAS shoulder harness/seat belt systems. They used to cost about $700.

None of the other stuff on that list is likely to save your life. The BAS harnesses have saved mine, and I put em in my own airplane the next week.

The EDM 700 works good, and is a very good device. My suggestion, however, since you are planning on going to a different engine anyway, is wait till you do the engine. That way, you won't have to mess around with just that much more stuff on the install.

The folding rear seats are nice. You might consider putting ONE in now, and the BAS harnesses. Most of these airplanes really aren't going to carry four adults anyway, and I find that more often than not, if I have anyone else with me, there are two of them, rarely three.

Just some thoughts.

MTV

quicksilver wrote:The JPI's are good instruments but the thing that really kills it for them is their customer service. If you ever have to call them and talk to them on the phone, you'll wish you were at the DMV instead.

I'd look into EI out of Bend, OR.

Their whole company attitude is anti customer. After what they tried to do to their customers about two years ago with the data logging from their monitors and the attitude they took on the Cessna Pilots Assoc defending themselves I will not ever buy anything from JPI. They simply do not exist as far as I am concerned.

As Mike suggested go with the shoulder harness, spend the rest of it on a trip somewhere. Why have folding seats when you can pull them out anyway? Engine monitor? I think you need less instruments not more, look at old Piper stuff and some of the earlier Cessna's, Airspeed, T+B, Tacho and CHT. Besides a mag Compass that's all you need, unless you do a bit of night work then maybe a couple more.

So you have around $2000 left after the shoulder harness, that should give you a decent amout of fuel. Chuck the friend/wife/partner in and enjoy.

tgiencke wrote:What type of flying do you do?

My blind answer is a garmin 396 with XM weather and a Telex 50D headset(s).

-Todd Giencke

Most of my flying is solo day VFR X-C to hard surface runways with squirrly winds and some grass (more to come as I get more familiar with the A/C).

I already have Bose and DC headsets and like my 196 - but am keeping an open mind to see what Garmin does at OSH. I would like to have wx in the cockpit.

Student Pilot wrote:As Mike suggested go with the shoulder harness, spend the rest of it on a trip somewhere. Why have folding seats when you can pull them out anyway? Engine monitor? I think you need less instruments not more, look at old Piper stuff and some of the earlier Cessna's, Airspeed, T+B, Tacho and CHT. Besides a mag Compass that's all you need, unless you do a bit of night work then maybe a couple more.

So you have around $2000 left after the shoulder harness, that should give you a decent amout of fuel. Chuck the friend/wife/partner in and enjoy.

Already did the BAS' and the upgrade $ are separate from the flying $. Doing 3-4 per week with one extended X-C each month or so.

I like to fly at night and I'm starting on my Instrument, but the panel is already nice and bare (PS 8000B for the tunes and a Garmin SL30 and SL40 along with the xponder) and I have no plans of adding to it beyond the AirGizmo Dock for the 196/496.

My mechanic's choice was the JPI since it is real easy to xfer between the O-320 and the O-360 engines.

OK, so I don't hear a lot of interest in putting VG's on my plane with your money...perhaps that idea is just ahead of its time.

If you're flying x-country a lot, might I suggest having Oregon Aero rebuild your front seats. They are the guru's of ass management. 'nuf said.

I'd agree with the Oregon Aero stuff. It is spendy though. On a Cessna, I wouldn't bother with the VG's. Not enough bang for the bucks, frankly.

I have to say that I have put JPI stuff in four airplanes, and I've always had great service with the equipment, and only one failure--a fuel flow transducer that went south. It was replaced at no charge within two days. Can't beat that, but I simply have had no problems with their stuff, and I've worked a lot of it.

I'd still consider the Atlee seats. They are nice, particularly if you ever do really need to carry three or four.

Consider the WX in the cockpit on the Garmins. They'll take your 196 in trade. Go to OSH and see what's next, but the 396 is a deal right now. I have one, and it's wonderful. I've used that weather info on every cross country flight to advantage so far.

MTV

MTV's got the right list.
You can put in the Oregon Aeros and you will hardly ever notice them. You will also find that you are completely unaware of your butt despite the 11 hours you just spent in the plane today.

The JPI's are great too, especially with the fuel flow option. I check mine regularly to compare predicted and actual fuel used. It's usually within a couple of tenths of a gallon. Compare that to the outright LIES that the Maule fuel gauges are telling me.

I have a 396 with XM Wx. East of the Rockies, it's my oracle. I had a chance to calibrate it on a transcontinental car trip this summer. Plenty of nasty weather in SD to check it against and I would say that lightning strikes, rain shaft contours, storm cell formation and movement were all accurate to within about a mile. Close enough for me to believe what I saw on the screen from the safety of my car and that I would never second guess it in the air. It also allows me to check METAR's at my destination while 2-300 miles away and decide if I want to quit early today.

YB

JPI with fuel flow for me before all the other stuff. My engine talks to me in detail with it. In a plane the engine is #1 next to the wings I 'spose. In less than the tbo of an engine the JPI monitor capability will save you much more than it's cost, in fuel and engine wear, and trouble shooting. It has a much faster probe than most of the other analizers and does more for you.
I have also had very good service from them with installations in dozens of Maules.
Jeremy

I still would buy a 396/496/?596? with the XM weather. Best money I have spent.

-Todd Giencke

watkins,

I disagree on the JPI. I think a lot of folks have misconceptions about the utility of those devices. As Jeremy says, they can be very useful in many ways.

They provide fuel flow information. If all you do is take off here, fly from here to there at one power setting, and never experiment with different power settings, you are right--a fuel flow computer is a waste.

On the other hand, with my airplane, I can vary fuel flow in cruise from 6.7 gph up to about 17, depending on what I do with the prop and throttle. Winds aloft different today? Use a different power setting, and this works even for a fixed pitch prop airplane. Remember, he's going to upgrade engines as well.

Do you have the time to do flights and experiment with several different power settings to see what works best for a given situation? I don't, or maybe I'm just too lazy. With the fuel flow, you can adjust the power setting, lean and look at the fuel flow. Look at the GPS and you've got some powerful information. Now, change the power setting, and compare.

Secondly, I agree that these things aren't all that helpful for leaning. That said, what makes you think your single probe EGT is mounted in the "right" cylinder? My engine alternates between two different cylinders as to which peaks first. Best way to lean these little Lycs is to pull it till it gets a little rough, then back off.

Don't fool yourself that you have enough information to lean by EGT if you only have a probe on one cylinder. That is straight from Lycoming, by the way.

But, one of the best uses of these devices is seeing where any problems are before they destroy something, and as a diagnostic tool for trouble shooting.

At one point, we were replacing an airplane with a new one. Aircraft Division asked me what I wanted in the new airplane. I told them the standard avionics, PLUS an EDM 700. Anything else, I could care less about. I used that device a LOT for a lot of things.

If you are comfortable running only one power setting, you are correct, you can learn to predict your fuel requirements pretty precisely.

But, I can sure make one less gph work for me these days.

MTV

Having fuel flow and total consumption is really great. I flew w/o it for years. I estimated fuel consumption/hour based on typical flights, which happened to be less than 1 hour and below 8,000.' My longer trips tend to be at higher altitudes, but, taking the conservative approach, I chose dog-leg routes and made fuel stops that many times were not necessary.

Having precise information about fuel consumption effectively increases range, and that can improve not only economy but, in some circumstances, safety because you have more options to deal with weather.

Last weekend, we had strong headwinds flying from Missoula to Ashland. The flight took us 4.5 direct . If I had used average fuel consumption based on my typical flights which are at lower altitudes (15 gph), we would have had to have made a significant deviation for a fuel stop. Instead, we used an average of 12 gph and landed with ample reserves.

Having the JPI is nice because you can watch for trouble and also keep the CHTs under control. If I had to choose, though, I'd take the fuel totalizer.

CAVU

Fair enough, Lance. There were many times I wished I'd had a totalizer in the 182 with standard tanks. A friend of mine used to run his powerflowed 172 all over the west--like nonstop from SF to Bryce! I think the Oregon Aero seat cushion was the most important equipment in his plane.

CAVU