Wondering if anybody else here regularly flies backcountry with a pulse oximeter. There have been times I have thought it would be useful to have one in flight. When Draco was at the Great Alaska Aviation Gathering this spring I noticed the panel included a really clean installation of a pulse ox. I commented on it to Mike Patey and he said that all his planes were equipped that way. I finally picked up a portable and added it to the flight vest. Anybody else use one?
Cheers,
-DP

Ya I keep one in the plane with me. It's nice to see what my levels are. At 10500' I generally am still reading about 95%. I haven't been up that high much since my cancer treatments and I'm curious to see if its changed... will be finding out once my 206 is airborne.

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I use a portable one as well. I try to keep my saturation level above 90%. I will use oxygen either continuously depending on saturation level or altitude. I think most people would be very surprised to find out that their ox level is much lower than they believe. Also the meter gives your pulse and it can be higher than expected. Anyway all good information to keep you safer for 10-15 dollars. I won’t go to altitude without one.

Anyone know what readings to expect in a cigarette smoker? Higher/lower than a non smoker?

c170pete wrote:Anyone know what readings to expect in a cigarette smoker? Higher/lower than a non smoker?

I would think lower but then again I used to smoke and my numbers are stay surprisingly high at altitude. I'm sure it depends on the person.

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I keep one in the airplane for fun but honestly don't check it unless I want to scare myself. My O2 saturation at 12500 has been 82-83%. I checked my buddy's on that same flight and his read 77%. He has a history of coronary disease too. I have been telling myself in need to buy an O2 tank. It's not healthy to be running low Oxygen sats - especially getting older. Mostly I just feel fatigued after 2-3 hours of flying above 9000 feet.

People living at higher elevations have lower O2sat readings. In Denver, O2 readings or normal healthy adults are often in the low 90's.

A pulse ox helps me feel refreshed on XC flights where I'm often at 10k or higher, and saves a lot of oxygen. I like to stay around 90. If I get to 88 or 87 for more than several minutes, I'll crack it open a bit more, and if it gets above 94 (my typical sat level at altitude), I turn it down a tad to save O2. A small bottle is good for 2 persons for 6-8 hours compared to just a few hours using the pointless manufacturer recommended values.

Talked to my Doc about that when I bought one of them, she said that any number 90 or above is fine, anything less than 90 you need to use Oxygen to get the number back up. I carry a disposable Oxygen can about the size of a large beer can in the plane, less than $10.00 at spruce or wall mart.

I have one as well. I use it at times just to spot check. A normal oxygen saturation for a normal person should be well above 95%. Those who live at altitude, develop more red blood cells and therefore carry more oxygen so they should still have normal oxygen levels. It takes 90 days to turn over your red blood cell numbers so the weekend worrier at 5000 feet does not count.
Smokers definitely will have lower oxygen saturation's. Smokers will also develop higher numbers of red blood cells to compensate but ultimately the inability to exchange oxygen through lung tissue causes lower oxygen levels in smokers. As a byproduct of cellular activity, Co2 builds up in smokers as well due to the lung not being able to get rid of the Co2. Thus smokers are also much more susceptible to small variations in oxygen saturation.
I attempted to climb Mt, Aconcagua in south america, I am not a small person by any means and at Plaza De Mules which is base camp, we where at 14400 feet elevation. I was in good shape, my oxygen there was 88%. At 85% the mountain rangers made you descend.

As an Emergency Physician I have always been intrigued with high altitude medicine. I have had a pipe dream of some day being a physician at everest base camp. Please remember oxygen deprivation is not something to mess with. It can kill and it can kill quickly. Having a pulse ox is a good tool, if your at or less than 90% you need oxygen or you need to descend. Please do not try and conserve oxygen at the expense of mild to moderate hypoxia.

Oh that reminds me the clinical definition of mild moderate and severe hypoxia are:

95–100% Normal
91–94% Mild hypoxia
86–90% Moderate hypoxia
Less than 85% Severe hypoxia

One last thing to know about pulse oximeter's they have been shown to have plus or minus 3% variance. The unit uses red light waves to measure the hemaglobin consintration of oxygen. Movement can distort the correctness of the measurement.

Just food for thought. Please know I do believe they are a good thing to have in your airplane and use regularly. Just want to help people know how to interpret the information in a good way.

gypsy

This one is in the glovebox for fun in mine.

Innovo Deluxe Fingertip Pulse Oximeter with Plethysmograph and Perfusion Index

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JBJ9BCR/re ... nDbGRWKZYJ

c170pete wrote:Anyone know what readings to expect in a cigarette smoker? Higher/lower than a non smoker?

They tell us in Army Aeromed that a smoker starts off at approximately 4,000’ DA. That doesn’t correlate well to o2 sats, so take it as you will.

c170pete wrote:Anyone know what readings to expect in a cigarette smoker? Higher/lower than a non smoker?

...the SpO2 meter will miss lead a smoker. In that it will read carbon monoxide that resides on the same receptors as oxygen on the red corpuscles. This is another reason a smoker has a greater number of red blood cells. The average smoker can have a 99% SpO2 reading.. blood oxygen saturation differs in that folks with COPD live with lower SpO2 levels and feel normal. A non-smoker can maintain a good level of concentration at 91%...a smoker...well....at 91% and a heart rate above 100...not good...add Oxygen.


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m_moyle wrote:

c170pete wrote:Anyone know what readings to expect in a cigarette smoker? Higher/lower than a non smoker?

...the SpO2 meter will miss lead a smoker. In that it will read carbon monoxide that resides on the same receptors as oxygen on the red corpuscles. This is another reason a smoker has a greater number of red blood cells. The average smoker can have a 99% SpO2 reading.. blood oxygen saturation differs in that folks with COPD live with lower SpO2 levels and feel normal. A non-smoker can maintain a good level of concentration at 91%...a smoker...well....at 91% and a heart rate above 100...not good...add Oxygen.


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THAT's the winning answer!

Smokers, and those with leaky exhaust systems, have CO attached to some fraction of their hemoglobin in place of oxygen. (in red blood cells). Oxygen is weakly bonded so that it can transfer easily from lung to blood to tissue. CO bonds with hemoglobin about 200X as well as O2. The bonded CO displaces the bloods normal ability to carry oxygen. If you have 10% of your hemoglobin saturated with CO, it cannot carry oxygen. Due to the stronger bond, it takes a while to clear out when the CO source is removed. If you are in an enclosed space with a low concentration of CO, it accumulates.

Hemoglobin carrying oxygen is the same color as hemoglobin carrying carbon monoxide. Pulse oximeters are pretty simple instruments that look at the color of blood in 2 wavelengths to determine SpO2. (in order to look at the color of the ARTERIAL blood, it looks only at the color of the pulsing blood and subtracts out the constant color -- thus 'pulse' oximeter)

A PULSE OXIMETER CANNOT TELL THE DIFFERENCE between blood loaded with O2 or CO.

So if you're a smoker, or hanging out in a CO filled cabin, a pulseox will indicate a SpO2 that is higher than reality.

Also - your SpO2 number WILL go down at elevation. Doesn't matter if you are a chain smoking couch potato or an elite marathon runner. Living at elevation has little effect on SpO2, though red blood cell count goes up to increase total O2 carrying capacity.

Cheers,

Pete.

I use a pulse-oximeter and supplemental O2 to maintain saturation levels above 95. The FAA guidelines are just that. I started using supplemental O2 lower and in greater quantities when I started monitoring my sats using the pulse-oximeter. I don't smoke, exercise often and am in good shape. YMMV.

CAVU

gypsywagon wrote:I have one as well. I use it at times just to spot check. A normal oxygen saturation for a normal person should be well above 95%. Those who live at altitude, develop more red blood cells and therefore carry more oxygen so they should still have normal oxygen levels. It takes 90 days to turn over your red blood cell numbers so the weekend worrier at 5000 feet does not count.
Smokers definitely will have lower oxygen saturation's. Smokers will also develop higher numbers of red blood cells to compensate but ultimately the inability to exchange oxygen through lung tissue causes lower oxygen levels in smokers. As a byproduct of cellular activity, Co2 builds up in smokers as well due to the lung not being able to get rid of the Co2. Thus smokers are also much more susceptible to small variations in oxygen saturation.
I attempted to climb Mt, Aconcagua in south america, I am not a small person by any means and at Plaza De Mules which is base camp, we where at 14400 feet elevation. I was in good shape, my oxygen there was 88%. At 85% the mountain rangers made you descend.

As an Emergency Physician I have always been intrigued with high altitude medicine. I have had a pipe dream of some day being a physician at everest base camp. Please remember oxygen deprivation is not something to mess with. It can kill and it can kill quickly. Having a pulse ox is a good tool, if your at or less than 90% you need oxygen or you need to descend. Please do not try and conserve oxygen at the expense of mild to moderate hypoxia.

Oh that reminds me the clinical definition of mild moderate and severe hypoxia are:

95–100% Normal
91–94% Mild hypoxia
86–90% Moderate hypoxia
Less than 85% Severe hypoxia

One last thing to know about pulse oximeter's they have been shown to have plus or minus 3% variance. The unit uses red light waves to measure the hemaglobin consintration of oxygen. Movement can distort the correctness of the measurement.

Just food for thought. Please know I do believe they are a good thing to have in your airplane and use regularly. Just want to help people know how to interpret the information in a good way.

gypsy

Thanks for the detailed and informed response Gypsy. Very helpful.

gypsywagon wrote:I have one as well. I use it at times just to spot check. A normal oxygen saturation for a normal person should be well above 95%. Those who live at altitude, develop more red blood cells and therefore carry more oxygen so they should still have normal oxygen levels. It takes 90 days to turn over your red blood cell numbers so the weekend worrier at 5000 feet does not count.
Smokers definitely will have lower oxygen saturation's. Smokers will also develop higher numbers of red blood cells to compensate but ultimately the inability to exchange oxygen through lung tissue causes lower oxygen levels in smokers. As a byproduct of cellular activity, Co2 builds up in smokers as well due to the lung not being able to get rid of the Co2. Thus smokers are also much more susceptible to small variations in oxygen saturation.
I attempted to climb Mt, Aconcagua in south america, I am not a small person by any means and at Plaza De Mules which is base camp, we where at 14400 feet elevation. I was in good shape, my oxygen there was 88%. At 85% the mountain rangers made you descend.

As an Emergency Physician I have always been intrigued with high altitude medicine. I have had a pipe dream of some day being a physician at everest base camp. Please remember oxygen deprivation is not something to mess with. It can kill and it can kill quickly. Having a pulse ox is a good tool, if your at or less than 90% you need oxygen or you need to descend. Please do not try and conserve oxygen at the expense of mild to moderate hypoxia.

Oh that reminds me the clinical definition of mild moderate and severe hypoxia are:

95–100% Normal
91–94% Mild hypoxia
86–90% Moderate hypoxia
Less than 85% Severe hypoxia

One last thing to know about pulse oximeter's they have been shown to have plus or minus 3% variance. The unit uses red light waves to measure the hemaglobin consintration of oxygen. Movement can distort the correctness of the measurement.

Just food for thought. Please know I do believe they are a good thing to have in your airplane and use regularly. Just want to help people know how to interpret the information in a good way.

gypsy

Thanks for the detailed and informed response Gypsy. Very helpful.

Haha- Went flying up high tonight and forgot to bring along the new toy. Might've been even more interesting to be watching heart rate on landing- with a cow moose and two calves on the runway.
-DP

If it is helpful here is some information mistake I made with a portable oxygen meter

In 2006 I took a job with a company that Agreed to reimburse me for a personal flight, I bought a turbocharged Trinidad to fly around the mountain west. For flying VFR in the teens I purchased a Mountain High on demand portable oxygen system to conserve 02. With this unit you were dialing in the altitude you were flying at and it would deliver the oxygen in metered pulses.

One day flying home from the Bay Area to Phoenix I was almost incapacitated. I felt clearheaded and smart but started doing some really stupid things; I felt so great I took my shoes off turned up the music and set the auto pilot. My vision started to get flutterery on the sides of my eyes, Since my thinking felt very clear, I made a mental note that I needed to paint the back of the prop better, thinking at the time the fluttering vision had to do with sunlight off of the back of the prop! I actually realized there was something wrong with my oxygen level and took a reading from my pulse oximeter and was surprised to see that I could not interpret the numbers and there must’ve been something wrong with it ( this was just my brain not working, but again, -although it was not the case, I felt mentally clear and sharp). In my altered state I did realize that I was going hypoxic and had to go to a lower altitude, but due to my mental state thought it was more important to be concerned about shock cooling, I remember staying at altitude spending a lot of time trying to interpret my engine monitors digital numbers which seemed to have the same display issues as my pulse oximeter and made no sense to me. Luckily I had a moment of clarity and then quickly went to a lower altitude. It was interesting that although my brain could not interpret the digital numbers, it could understand the analog gauges.

After the fact I realized that the on-demand oxygen system sensed when you took a breath and that I had a tendency when I was concentrating to not take regular breaths. After that I always set The oxygen system by my SPO2 levels and not it’s settings. I also realized That even without supplemental oxygen, intentionally taking big breaths could raise the SPO2 and even without supplemental oxygen intentionally gbreathing deeply and regularly could raise my SPO2 a point or two.

Dale Moul wrote:... disposable Oxygen can about the size of a large beer can in the plane, less than $10.00 at spruce or wall mart.

Thanks for the tip, I just ordered one up--
a "Boost Oxygen" 10 liter cannister, good for up to 200 one-second inhalations.
$15.14 & free shipping.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Boost-Oxygen ... 30&veh=sem