In regards to the tragic events we are all watching unfold in Central Idaho this week, like many of you I have been re-evaluating my emergency equipment.

I have been evaluating a number of tracking type devices and I am soliciting comments on the Spot and specifically Spot Gen-3. The subscription looks to be about $150/year as opposed to others that are much more expensive. Also what about the additional $17.95/year for rescue insurance??

I believe in redundency so this would be in addition to my PLB and ICOM transceiver that I carry in my survival vest.

Thinking seriously about cashing in some Cabelas points and getting one of these units.

Thoughts?? Comments??

I've been really happy with my Gen3. Don't know anyone that has used the insurance. It reimburses up to $100K. Don't know a lot about it but seems like that amount could be reached fairly quickly with a hospital helo ride. Probably worth it to buy the insurance.

I would get the unlimited tracking upgrade (+$50), this will get you unlimited tracking @ 5 minute intervals. The stock 10-minute interval is too big for airplanes in my opionion. There is also "Extreme tracking" for another $100 that goes down to 2.5 minute intervals but that costs too much for the small benefit.

Make it very clear in your online profile that the device is used in an airplane (same with PLBs). If they don't abosultely know this they will assume you are ground-based and it will delay an aerial search and who handles the SAR.

DBI wrote:In regards to the tragic events we are all watching unfold in Central Idaho this week, like many of you I have been re-evaluating my emergency equipment.

I have been evaluating a number of tracking type devices and I am soliciting comments on the Spot and specifically Spot Gen-3. The subscription looks to be about $150/year as opposed to others that are much more expensive. Also what about the additional $17.95/year for rescue insurance??

I believe in redundency so this would be in addition to my PLB and ICOM transceiver that I carry in my survival vest.

Thinking seriously about cashing in some Cabelas points and getting one of these units.

Thoughts?? Comments??

I'm of the mind that spot is a neat toy. Your PLB and ICOM (iridium, right?) already do the spot job better than spot. Given the gear you already have, the redundancy I would be looking for is a 406 ELT. You already have two handheld solutions that are better than spot, the real gap in your plan is the g-switch and auto activation of a plane mounted solution.

I don't disagree about the 406ELT being a good thing but the Spot does tracking way better than a PLB. PLBs have to be activated. ELTs frequently have antennas ripped off during an accident and don't always activate. Having something that is always on, frequently reporting your position, and not dependant on radar can be very helpful.

If the SPOT is a toy, it's one of the best toys I have. I think it's a great value for the price, and it works. I use it all the time. I pre-programed the 2nd message with "All OK, Taking Off", and hit that button prior to departure from any airstrip. It alerts my "followers" to watch out for me. Upon landing I hit the check in button which sends the message, "All OK, Landed". I just have to remember to push the Taking Off button at least 10 minutes prior to actual take off to allow the SPOT to wait for the satellite to get the message. And the "come get me insurance", it's like my American Express card, don't leave home without it.

scottf wrote:I don't disagree about the 406ELT being a good thing but the Spot does tracking way better than a PLB. PLBs have to be activated. ELTs frequently have antennas ripped off during an accident. Having something that is always on, frequently reporting your position, and not dependant on radar can be very helpful.

You can, and perhaps should, get 406ELTs with internal antennas. Another of their liabilities is that they don't always activate (though they are *far* more reliable than the older 121 based units).

IIRC, Spot caches positions and retries. Since this is a back country forum, this is not something I would ever trust to actually be updating regularly. It is far too easy to imagine that the search would be focused 10-20 minutes (which is 10-60 miles depending on plane?) away from the actual crash.

If you convince yourself that you want something doing "live" tracking, then spidertracks is the way to go. Far more reliable than spot. Of course, you get what you pay for in this instance. Spidertracks is spendy. But if you are buying this as a real piece of safety gear, then that shouldn't be the issue. If you just want to log your flights so your BCP friends can be jealous of you while they are at work, then spot is a great, and cheap-ish toy.

Not sure where you are getting your information but having actually used Spot for 5 years I think you are a bit off base thinking it is just a toy. It has been very reliable. It's recording the location and the timestamp the unit was at that location. If I ever go down in a remote location I'll be really glad I had my Spot tracking me not just hoping my ELT went off.

I like my SPOT 1st gen and have shared my page with family and friends and as you can see here on BCP also. Back on track for this thread is anyone here on BCP using a SPOT 3 and can comment?

It is far too easy to imagine that the search would be focused 10-20 minutes (which is 10-60 miles depending on plane?) away from the actual crash.

What? Let's see... My max speed while in the mountains is about 90 mph, so every minute I fly 1.5 miles max. Let's say I go down and don't get to push the SOS button, but my SPOT either broke upon impact so quit sending tracts, or it didn't break and the tracking footprints just pile up in one location. So my rescuers look at the website and see the end of my trail, which gives them my direction of travel, and say, based upon his plane, he could only be a max of 15 miles from the "end of the trail" location. Let's start searching at the end of his trail and fly another 15 or 20 miles beyond. Wow, that will take all of 10 minutes! I figure that's pretty good odds for me, laying on the ground at the crash site.

Ok, clearly the word 'toy' is chafing with people. I'll withdraw that as it detracts from my point.

IMO:

1) Spidertracks is better (iridium based and more reliable). If you are going to get a tracker for safety purposes get this one.

2) 406/ELT is where you should spend your money right now. You already have PLB and sat phone. Get something that automatically triggers.

What did your hardware cost you for your initial investment for spider tracks? And what is the annual or monthly subscription rate?

Glidergeek wrote:What did your hardware cost you for your initial investment for spider tracks? And what is the annual or monthly subscription rate?

I don't own a 'tracker' style device. I have a PLB and a shitty old 121.5 ELT. I am saving pennies for a 406/ELT. When I did my research on this a while back it appeared that spidertracks was about twice as expensive as spot.

In any case, here's the monthly cost for the spidertracks:
http://us.spidertracks.com/pages/plans-add-ons-low-use

I have an old Spot. It works fine, that is to say much better than their voice service, anywhere below 60 anyway. Velcro it to the dash. Easy to grab there and slip in a pocket if need be.

Just received a new Kannad Integra 406GPS ELT. Nice and clean looking unit. Lightweight with integrated GPS and internal antenna for when the external one gets snapped off in the crash. $1048 from Spruce. The only downside (other than being manufactured in France) is the $200 battery but its good for 6 years.

I hope it never gets used. Now, does anybody wanna come wire it up?

rw2 wrote:

Glidergeek wrote:What did your hardware cost you for your initial investment for spider tracks? And what is the annual or monthly subscription rate?

I don't own a 'tracker' style device. I have a PLB and a shitty old 121.5 ELT. I am saving pennies for a 406/ELT. When I did my research on this a while back it appeared that spidertracks was about twice as expensive as spot.

In any case, here's the monthly cost for the spidertracks:
http://us.spidertracks.com/pages/plans-add-ons-low-use

Ya looks like the hardware is $995 - $1995, not portable, uses external power and monthly plans upwards from $30 per = $360+ per year (SPOT $165 per yr).
Shows altitude and speed, I care more about leaving hints about where I had been and being able to move the SPOT from plane to glider and take with me on foot if I choose.

rw2 wrote:

Glidergeek wrote:What did your hardware cost you for your initial investment for spider tracks? And what is the annual or monthly subscription rate?

I don't own a 'tracker' style device. I have a PLB and a shitty old 121.5 ELT. I am saving pennies for a 406/ELT. When I did my research on this a while back it appeared that spidertracks was about twice as expensive as spot.

In any case, here's the monthly cost for the spidertracks:
http://us.spidertracks.com/pages/plans-add-ons-low-use

I don't think Spidertracks is actually significantly more "reliable" than SPOT due to using the Iridium system, as opposed to the Globalstar system, which SPOT uses. Globalstar has had reliability issues with VOICE transmission, due to non availability of satellites and dropped calls. That's generally not a problem with these trackers, since they transmit a "burst" message (ie: very short) and they repeat that message repeatedly to ensure that it's received by the system.

I've been using a SPOT tracker for several years, and it's been very reliable in my experience.

Spidertracks does have some additional and nicer features than SPOT, no doubt, including much shorter track reporting times, which could be a big deal.....searching a track of five to eight miles can be like a needle in a haystack, as the current search in Idaho suggests. A shorter track interval is better, but requires more satellite time, which costs $$$$.

Another option is the InReach devices, cost wise a little cheaper than Spidertracks AND, importantly in my opinion, the InReach doesn't require ship's power, as Spidertracks does.

A 406 ELT connected to a GPS, a PLB ON YOUR PERSON in case that ELT doesn't activate, and some form of tracking device is the ideal, I suppose. May seem like overkill, till you're in an accident.

MTV

For me rethinking each flight takes time and effort. I go from winter mountains, to hot deserts, to offshore oceans, etc. etc. Each flight may have different exposure levels to various conditions. Situational awareness is high on my list after I have my waypoints.

I am an old timer (used to use a sexton to navigate) and still believe in a PLB as a starting point for all places traveled.

Glidergeek wrote:Ya looks like the hardware is $995 - $1995, not portable, uses external power

No internal power, true, but it is portable. Cigarette lighter plug.

The impression I got is that their target market is the professional fleet manager (one in every plane or truck the company owns) rather than guys like us.

Maybe the delorme inreach is more comparable? Like spidertracks it has the advantage of being iridium based, but I know little about it beyond that. The unit looks to be about $300 and the packages page is here: http://www.inreachdelorme.com/product-i ... -plans.php

On the surface it looks pretty swank. I have no idea if there are any gotchas lurking somewhere though. Didn't look into it when I last was interested in this subject.

I've watched numerous Spot tracks while waiting to see if gliders are going to make it home. Unfortunately, Spot doesn't send altitude, so not much help with determining if the glider is in real doo-doo. Also, Spot regularly misses sending an update, often going more than half an hour at the 10 minute tracking interval. Spot, at least in Nevada, requires a good view of the SSE horizon. In my experience, though limited, Spot doesn't work worth a darn when down in a canyon without a good view to the south.

This is not a problem with InReach, as the Iridium sats are in low earth orbit. Even down in the bottom of a steep Idaho canyon I was able to send a text message to my wife. True, it did not go out right away, took about 5 minutes until a sat came into view and the message was then sent. At least InReach *knows* that the message didn't go out and tries over and over as it's two-way, unlike the one-way Spot. Sort of analogous to yelling for help and being deaf . . . you never know if someone is answering or even out there. Besides being more reliable, InReach is two-way, and that makes all the difference. You can even talk (via texting) to emergency responders after sending an SOS. They can let you know they are on the way, and you can let them know of any special circumstances involved.

Installed in my Husky, the InReach is up high under the sky light. But it's nice to know that it even works reliably laying down on the passenger seat of my truck. Oh, and it sends altitude, speed, bearing, and lat and lon (Spot only sends the latter). InReach costs a little more, but my butt is worth it (at least to me . . . my wife agrees, at least that's what she says).

bumper

If we're talking reliability, I think anything anything requiring the ships power is way down my list. If you go down, the chances of the power cord staying plugged in, or the wires going to the cig plug remaining intact seem small to me. With the spot, it just keeps piling up the tracking marks right where I am until the battery goes dead. G switches still aren't near 100% activation rate on ELTs, 406 or not. I do like that you can activate them remotely though.
I habe a 406 and a spot 2. I think they are both great. The spit has always worked great, and always tracks well. To say that they are not effective, well there's a lot of feedback in the above posts showing the opposite.

The Delorme InReach is the best thing going, but still has its pro's and con's. I have the SPOT Messenger (2) and it's a great improvement over the original SPOT, and the SPOT Gen3 looks impressive. I would not want Spidertracks for more than a few reason, most they are listed above. For the price and yearly subscription fees, the InReach and SPOT are great life saving tools that every pilot should have.

A 406 mHz ELT will be installed in my plane this spring. I also carry a ICOM handheld now.