lazflyn wrote:...Then after it's been on for a bit, I press the "OK" button, then let it sit for a bit (like 10 min). After that I shut it off. I guess Rob is saying it will last a year if left on continuously? Where does it say it will last that long?...

I recommend turning it on and leaving it on during your trip so it will always have a current GPS position. Here is the info from SPOTs website about battery life:

Battery Life
Includes 2 AA 1.5V lithium batteries; under normal usage a full battery charge should meet or exceed the following

* Power on, unused: Approx. 1 year
* SPOTcasting tracking mode: Approx. 14 days
* 9-1-1 mode: Up to 7 consecutive days
* SPOTcheck OK/√: 1900 messages

When you press the OK button your SPOT tries three times over 15 minutes to send the message. The server software edits out any duplicate messages so your recipient only gets one. If you turn the SPOT off before this 15 minute period is up you will reduce the chance of a message getting through. You will know its finished when the "OK check" light stops blinking and just the "On/Off" light is blinking.

As far as working in canyons. I just took my spot down the grand canyon on a 21 day river trip on 226 miles of the Colorado river. It worked in most all places. There were a few tight spots that it was not able to get a GPS position however it was able to send an ok message. I definitely love my spot. It doesn't hurt that I got a free one thought


Mike

O.K.,

So my son and I are taking the our Maule on a first ever Idaho backcounty trip of two weeks duration in June. Do you all agree that the SPOT device is likely to work as advertised in that area.

I recently read a field test on the device that said it's signals were often blocked by tall trees and mountains. Guess that one hopefully could hike or crawl to clear area or higher elevation. I am interested in comments from anyone who had used SPOT in the Idaho backcountry.

Thanks,

Bob

I don't know about everywhere in ID. but my buddy Matt has been SPOTTIN' the shit out of me all winter! From many points in ID and UT. I don't know how many he sent that I didn't get, but I believe I get most of them. It's a good thing because if he ever ends up missing people like us can have an edge at finding or helping him.
It's also a great way to convince your kids to study in school. I show them all of the google link maps of his fun trips and tell them if they drop out like me they'll have to stay at home and work a lot but if they study then they can become a doctor and have all sorts of time off to play in their expensive toys!
Thanks Matt!!!!

z3skybolt wrote:So my son and I are taking the our Maule on a first ever Idaho backcounty trip of two weeks duration in June. Do you all agree that the SPOT device is likely to work as advertised in that area....Bob

Idaho and the entire lower 48 states have very good SPOT satellite coverage. Idaho will always have at least two satellites overhead and in range. The satellites move over the surface of the earth in a sine wave pattern. If you could see them they would always appear to be moving either NE or SE. Some will pass directly overhead and others be off to the side. The east vector is because the earth is rotating. The N-S direction is due to the satellites orbit being set at an angle. Even if you only have a small patch of the sky visible eventually one of the satellites will be in that area of the sky and your signal will get out. With only a small patch of sky visible not every transmission will be successful but since SPOT resends help and 911 messages every every 5 minutes and the satellites are moving so fast it wont take too long.

GPS equipped PLBs make use of geostationary satellites that as the name implies stay in one position over the earth. There are two of the GEO satellites covering the US. If your PLB does not have a view of one of those stationary satellites it has to wait for the one of the polar orbiting LEO satellites to pass by. This takes an average of 45 minutes but if you had a limited view of the sky could take longer.

Both SPOT and PLB messages require a view of the sky and both will generally take longer to get a signal out with a limited view of the sky. I still have confidence in both technologies.

I think you guys have "sold" me. Now are there better places to buy then others? jg

I haven't used spot, but from using global star telephones I know that in northern latitudes, say from 47 degrees on up (about central MN), a clear view of the southern sky is key. If you are on the north side of a hill, south shore of a lake, north side of some trees, the signal would be difficult or impossible to get. This was even a few years ago before the satellites began to fail. I realize the SPOT doesn't use the satellite's s-band antenna's that are failing the global star phones. But they do need the line of site to the same satellites. If you are using this as a life-saving device, and not a communication device, that could be a problem. Your plane goes down on a north side of a ridge or you hit the south shore of a lake on floats. You can get out of the wreckage, but are too injured to crawl to the top of the ridge, will SPOT work? Will you bet your life on it? Or a loved one's life? This is where the PLB is way better. I think SPOT has its place, maybe as a cheaper alternative to a sat phone to let people know you made it. But realize, when you told someone you will SPOT them when you get there, and find that you can't get signal because of your location, the people at home will start to worry. Been there done that with Globalstar phones. For my money and my family's safety, the PLB and Iridium Sat Phone are worth the extra $. I wouldn't consider the SPOT a substitute to a PLB, more like a compliment to it. And, in the long term, will Globalstar survive financially if they can't get their phone service working? And if they go under as some speculate, will SPOT become a high tech fishing lure? I'll bet with SPOT's success Iridium will come out with their own version of SPOT, and their satellites are available everywhere with a straight up view. I'm holding out for Iridium's version of SPOT, and will continue to carry the PLB.

lowflyin'G3 wrote:...if they drop out like me they'll have to stay at home and work a lot but if they study then they can become a doctor and have all sorts of time off to play in their expensive toys!

Can you get a Bonanza into those places?

patrol guy wrote:I think you guys have "sold" me. Now are there better places to buy then others? jg

If you want to deal with airplane folks, go to www.preparedpilot.com. (Hi, Rob.) His prices seems as good as any I've seen.

Benton 10apr08

Spot, much like the entire Globalstar system, does not work well in AK. I would be reluctant to buy a product that relies on the Globalstar network. Just a little web surfing may highlight some of the difficuties people have had with that network. Also, the publicly traded stock is worth about a third of what it was a year ago. Like Rhyppa said, I will wait for an Iridium based device.

Now a PLB does not allow you to e-mail greetings and salutations, nor does it allow you to use tracking information like the SPOT. It does, however, tie into National and International Search and rescue satelites --COSPAS-SARSAT. If you have a GPS capable PLB the worldwide average response time, from distress signal to search and rescue deployment, is 15 minutes. If you do not have a GPS capable PLB or do not have a clear view of the sky, the average response time is 60 minutes.

If your life depends upon it, take the PLB.

Chet

chetharris wrote:If your life depends upon it take the PLB.

My thought was to buy the SPOT, but rent a PLB when/if I go somewhere the SPOT's coverage would be marginal.

Does anyone rent PLBs by the week/month? If not, seems like that might be a business for someone. I've thought about suggesting my EAA chapter buy one -- from Portland, we've had at least a couple members fly to AK in the last year or two.

Benton 10apr08

Benton, that is a great idea. Someone start renting. Most folks probably do only one big trip a year.

I think the problem with renting the PLB would be that it is registered to one user. So if it were rented the business would have to keep good records on who to call when they get called.
Just my .02

Guys, I lost a friend and his Dad many years ago when they crashed their 170 in some wooded hills about 10 miles south of a major metropolitan area. Several years passed before the wreckage was found. A mile can be plenty remote if you're seriously injured. Don't just rent a PLB for the annual oddysey. Buy one and take it every flight. If you have any doubt, ask your loved ones. My 2 cents.

CAVU

Wow!!! Thankfully, some thoughtful comments on this subject from some folks who aren't enamored with the latest gadget.

I too hope the program works out. As noted, however, its success depends totally on Globalstar's continued success. Read some of the info on that, as recommended by others.

And, remember, the folks "manning the phones" might just go away without warning, much as a couple of airlines have done recently. No warning, nada. One day they're there, doing business, next day, nobody answers the calls.

The PLB system will be responded to as long as there is a US Government.

I'm not saying don't buy one of these things, I'm just saying don't bet your life on it. Get a PLB also.

MTV

Pretty soon this flying thing is gonna be so safe I am gonna have to go back to Sex and Sky Diving if I want any risk.

10-4 scout, sport death!!
At least you can get both at the right DZ!

I saw the spot on sale at big 5 sports shops about a month ago. As I remember they were in the 135-145 range there.

I thought about buying one then, I most likely will when the next sale starts.

For sex and skydiving...... I'll paint a target on the roof of the Wild Kat Ranch down in Mina. Give you guys something to aim at. Looking at the girls in the pool pics on their web site, it'd be like the picture of the poor schmuck parachuting into the lake full of alligators.

I don't think SPOT or PLB is gonna save you from that fate.

http://www.wildkatranch.com/

Gump

I too have been debating the purchase of the SPOT or a PLB. There is a good review on http://www.equippedtosurvive.com, a VERY good site. The author brings alot of credibility to the reviews.

As long as family and friends know where I am that should be enough. Do I REALLY need to update them every 5 minutes? If I have a REAL problem then I will activate the PLB. Aside from the questionable longevity of Globstar, in less than 5 years you paid for a PLB after paying for a SPOT and the $99/yr min. service fee.

After my problems with the FSS flightplans in Utah last month and the lack of experience Hughes has, a PLB looks like the way to go. Once you get stuck in a remote area, you would pay twice the cost of a $600 PLB.

Some of you talked about renting a PLB, its already being done,....http://www.plbrentals.com/

Just something to think about, my opinion.

Buying a PLB hurt for a couple days...it's a lot of money for something you never want to use. But now that I have one I couldn't imagine flying without one.

Snoopydoc and I flew into Alpine County yesterday, took about 45 minutes each way...hardly a trip across the Yukon. But if you figure out all the places a plane could end up between Auburn and Markleeville, well, you just couldn't search that area. It's impossible, even with Fossett's search crew (which none of the rest of us are going to get). Without a beacon a downed plane just isn't going to be found in that country.

My experience with the ELT is that it's about useless unless someone is already looking for you. Since the only person likely to notice I'm gone for several days is sitting next to me in the plane, nobody's going to be looking for a long time.

I think the SPOT looks pretty neat...high gadget factor and fun to play with. But considering the cost of aviation in general, $500 for a PLB seems like a no-brainer. It's certainly not going to seem like much money if you ever find yourself sitting in the trees with a couple broken bones.