So I’m trying to decide on a grade for the pilot on a commercial flight I just finished. As we come over the fence I’m thinking we are getting really slow. At about 10’ off the deck the right wing stalls, nose swings, and thud we are on the ground. No energy left so no bounce. Got the nose straight first attempt. Reminded me of some of my early landings. So I’m trying to decide what grade to give him. Originally was thinking a D, but it all came together quick and he had the courage to open the cockpit door as we deplaned. So maybe a C-? What say you? [emoji51]


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If I can fly the plane back home landing is always graded as an A+.
DENNY

I've chunked enough landings to avoid being judgmental in these situations. I figure if we walk away and they can still fly the plane afterwards, it can't be all bad.

So you think maybe I’m being too harsh? Hmmm. Well it was impressive that he didn’t need to get anywhere near those 1,000’ training marks on the runway. It did bring a smile to my face reminding me of all those 4g landings in a Super D when I was relearning to fly and getting a Tailwheel endorsement at the same time. After two days of that the instructor finally asked me “I suppose you do know where the ground is?” [emoji16]


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When I was flying my pacer I was able to get my wife headset completely off, TWICE, while landing. Pacers are tough birds!!
DENNY

What kind of plane are we talking about here?

You mentioned a cockpit door...

I guess I come in on the harsher side of grading. This was a commercial student, not a primary student. Unless you were practicing extremely short landings as part of the commercial syllabus, I'd give the student a D. At the commercial level the student should have positive control of the plane at all times. Completely stalling the plane before reaching the ground doesn't meet that standard. Commercial training may not be as precise as instrument training, but this could have been really serious if you were 10 feet higher when it let go. Give the student a harsh grade and see if that makes them more aware of airspeed during critical phases of flight.

If it was an airline flight I'd say he tried to hand fly one.

Lots of possibilities.

Assuming an airline flight, it could have been his first landing in the airplane (with a plane full of paying passengers) ... as opposed to the simulator. And it could have been 100 thousand pounds heavier than whatever he flew before he got his big airline job.

"Did we land or were we shot down?" gets old fast.

I invite comments on my good landings, not my bad ones. That really cut down on chatter because they are rare;-)

gbflyer wrote:If it was an airline flight I'd say he tried to hand fly one.

In the airline world they are all hand flown unless doing an auto land in low visibility or for pilot proficiency or airplane currency. Auto lands are more complicated than actually hand flying it.

kg wrote:Lots of possibilities.

Assuming an airline flight, it could have been his first landing in the airplane (with a plane full of paying passengers) ... as opposed to the simulator. And it could have been 100 thousand pounds heavier than whatever he flew before he got his big airline job.

Ahhhhh, no. Far from it.

Should have asked what his username is on BCP!

It was an airline flight, aboard an Embraer.

If the right wing stalled and the left didn't, he has a longitudinal alignment with rudder only problem. I expect the nose was going a bit right and he was trying to bring it back with a coordinated left turn putting the right aileron down. This is what the old guys called, "the aileron going out."

I realize flight review is an evaluation, but we want to help as well. At least that is what the FAA says. I expect you went around with him again and he did better.

Yeah I’d ask, what kind of plane? And I’d add, after nearly 15,000 hours, I’ll still occasionally prang one on. Lots of factors can affect the landing. Hard to tell without being there. And as mentioned above, it very well could have been the guys first time or still trying to figure the plane out. Or he could just suck. Flown plenty with those types too!


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Since I wasn't there it's hard to say exactly what you experienced, but here's a few observations to add perspective.

The operating envelope of a transport category jet is such that depending on landing weight, flap setting selected, and adjustments for wind, there is way too much variation in approach speed to judge if you where slow over the fence. Being below your target speed is not tolerated on airline flight decks.

I assume your perception of the stall was due to a sensation of sink rate or a feeling that the wing dropped? However given your comment about the swing of the nose it was more likely a somewhat poorly executed last second kick it straight and stick in the wind type maneuver to compensate for crosswinds. The technique is commonly used in a variety of jets with low clearance due to under wing mounted engines or low wingtip clearance such as some 50 seat regional jets like the emb145 or crj-200.

Despite the occasional sensation of falling out of the sky, some might be surprised to know that airliners are flown rather than full stalled onto the runway. Failure to control ones sink rate leads to a predictable sensation of impact just as can happen in our GA planes even though we are still at approach speed. The difference is that you are equipped with ground spoilers on a jet that generally keep you stuck to the ground as opposed to the fantastic bounce or balloon that a GA plane will experience. These same spoilers do an amazingly good job of straightening out a poorly aligned touchdown too.

Everyone from junior first officers to the most senior captains will misjudge a landing once in a while. If a pilot doesn't remember their own hideous landings they're probably suffering from a major case of hubris or aren't judging their own performance in an honest way.

It's also worth noting that a firm touchdown right on the 500 foot markers is a common experience at certain airports that suffered from frequent runway contamination (i.e. snow/ice) in combination with minimal runway length when used by jet aircraft. Think Jackson Hole WY.

We have all pranged landings, myself included. I seriously doubt that this airplane "stalled", I bet it was nothing more than just a bad landing for what ever reason.
From my experience and what I have seen, new pilots fresh out of training/simulator make pretty good landings and fly well for the most part, the airplane is easier to fly than the sim in most cases. The bad landings usually come after a little more experience and after being cut loose from IOE (initial operating experience with check airman/instructor pilot, 25 hours of line flying in most cases), usually, but not always.

The airport was Denver International. I was seated at the exit row watching the approach so had a great view of the runway alongside and forward of us, and the wing. No crosswind or much of any wind at the time. He just got too slow. But like I said a pretty good recovery considering he got it straight in one attempt. Woke the passengers up though. My biggest disappointment was no pithy remarks from the flight attendant (I always enjoy those), but she was very young so I'm sure wasn't comfortable yet making fun of the flight crew. Anyway I got back home so all is good. Time to go ski flying! Or put the wheels back on. Won't know for sure till the sun comes up.

Welcome home!


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