Tim:

I have a 59 180 with the IO-520. It is the second 180 I have owned. Previous to that, I had owned / flown a J-3, Aeronca Chief, Luscombe, 170, 195, Supercub, etc.

First, I will tell you that I love 180s. I have 4 kids and when I fly long haul with them, I can always fit in what I need. I use mine for both business and going into short backcountry strips and it is an awseome allaround airplane. I would never discourage you from getting one.

HOWEVER, flying taildraggers and flying tailwheels is two different things, and a 180 is one of the tougher taildraggers to fly. There is a reason that a lot of the commercial operators have gone to 206s. I would strongly recommend you find someone in your area with a 180/185 and spend quite a bit of time before you decide to pull the trigger. I sold my first 180 to a guy who was a 182 driver. I asked him many times, do you know what you are getting into. He said yes, I have one of the best 180 drivers around to teach me, etc... Long story short, he rolled the 180 into a ball in a cross wind (Xwinds are fierce here in NM).

I agree with the previous counsel that said you can do most of what a 180 will do with a 182. If I were in your shoes, I would want to spend some time with someone who knows what they are doing before you decide that is the direction you want to go.

1. I would beg, cajole, etc. and find a good CFI that knows 180s. Surely there is one in your area. I know of one in Colo that will go up with you in his bird, and I noticed others suggest possibilities. Do that first and buy a couple weekends of their time to see if you really like the challenge of taildraggers. You mentioned JC. I think the Mountain School in Idaho has some 180s they might give you dual in. You might also contact Steve D., President of the Utah Backcountry Pilot's Association. I know he is a CFI and has a 185. He might be able to spend a weekend with you.

2. If you decide to go that way be prepared to spend some time with someone who knows crosswind landing. You have a great advantage in having a runway out your back door, but make sure you spend a lot of time getting comfortable with the transition.

That being said, I love my 180 and wouldn't part with it. Yeah, they are tougher in cross winds, but they are also a lot better backcountry airplane and if flown correctly. I disagree that you have to fly them for a living to to be really proficient. I do try to stay current, but once a month intensive practice will keep you up to speed. It would be hard to point to an airplane that can serve the variety of missions the 180 can. Besides, they look really cool setting on the ramp!!!

One other thing, I would recommend that you hook up with the 180 association. I'm not sure why they have the bad rap here on this web site. My experience with them is just the opposite. Go ahead and contact Rob D. the webmaster of the 180 site and he can help you locate some folks in your area that are good CFIs and know 180s. If you are going to be a 180 driver, I would strongly recommend that you become part of that organization. They have been a good resource to me.

Good luck Tim!! Regards, Larry

Holly smokes, from a 25K taildragger to a C180 in the same topic. Hmmm

After already doing up a great big essay... I've deleted it to add that if you're looking for the $25K craft, T-Craft (85 hp) is hard to beat at 4.5 gph @107 and works just as nicely on floats as it does wheels.

Got lots more to say, but it's just too broad a topic. $25K - C180's

Good luck.

OK, here's my .02 cents worth.

If your mission includes those passengers you mention I strongly suggest going back and reading those two posts about a Stinson 108. Far and away it's the best sleeper airplane out there for your mission. You will pay 30K for a good low time machine, but you can get into your price range with a dated interior, a mid time engine or some older avionics.

Regarding the Pacer, be sure to do the math on the weight and balance if you're planning on carrying four people.

In the experimental market you won't find anything that seats four in your price range unless you build it yourself or stumble across a great deal. Even if you build it yourself then the only thing in the 25K range would be a scratch built Bearhawk.

Converting a 182 is very expensive.

In my humble opinion, your absolute best option is to sell your 182 and get an equivalent 180 or better yet, sell it and get an absolutely fabulous Stinson 108.

I've seen some ads for very reasonably priced Stinson 108's with O-360 Lyc,IO-360 Cont, and O-470 Cont engine uogrades. The term "poor man's skywagon" comes to mind.

That 0-470 Stinson will make the stock 180 look like a real dog, if set up and flown right! That's the best "sleeper" value out there as far as I'm concerned.
JH

http://www.controller.com/listings/deta ... ID=1108837

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Here are a couple of nice Stinsons. I hope this thread will be a topic at JC in a week. Will be in the blue 182B

Tim