Jaerl wrote: If I go with a Plane Power Alternator, I will still need a field approval and also all the stuff to wire in a regulator too ($750 +). Plus I don't want any more weight up front because the CG moved 4" forward from what the original Cessna W&B was.

You will need an alternator up front regardless, might-as-well make it a lightweight unit. You don't have to mount the voltage regulator on the spinner mount it in the cabin or back near the battery...it weighs at least 7 ounces

Now we need to leave my mechanic out of this mess, this one is all mine. He was dealing with the FAA inspector on a daily basis for me and the inspector told him he wouldn't approve my alternator. I told him I would find a replacement and thats when I came here.

I will ask my mechanic about doing it with just a log entry, but it was the guy from Plane Power who told me I would need a field approval because my engine is not on that list (mine is an A1D-C indicating the A1D has been changed to the A1A Configuration, long story) and my plane is no longer an "Approved Model" because of the Avcon Conversion.

There is really nothing wrong with the Alternator I have. It is brand new, lightweight and has actually been STC'd on one Mooney and field approved on other certified aircraft. Problem is, I need someone who will sign it off. I sent a couple of emails off to some local DER's and I'm trying to find the guy in North Dakota. What a PITA.

On the weatherstrip, I did like Whee did and just ordered three diffrent types of weatherstrip from Aircraft Spruce. They were actually cheaper than JC Whitney. Right after I ordered it I found a site with tons of weatherstripping but you need to order a minimum of 250'.

I was at the Provo airport yesterday at 6:30 and it was -5 degrees. Someone remind me why I live here

Jerry

The SLC FSDO used to have a bad reputation for "being assholes"..and that is a quote from the CA Aircraft Certification office of the FAA. A buddy actually spent more on phone calls trying to get an approval for an ELT..Ameriking I believe..multiple calls to MFG, dealer, FAA than he did on the ELT..the issue was a "lack of mil spec on the little phone cable that connects the elt and the cabin panel. Another one of the squaks was "there is no circuit protection"...the FSDO electronics guy didn't even know that the elt was not connected to ships power yet he had the power of god....told my buddy that he would rather have him crash in northern Utah in the winter without an elt than risk him dying from toxic fumes from the phone cable if there was a fire on board!....and that brand of elt was being installed on new Bos at the time. That's when I learned that not all FSDOs are created equal. Related the story to a buddy in another FSDO district and he took the 337 to his FSDO, related my buddy's story..the FAA guys laughed their butts off and signed it post haste....and yet, I met some great guys in the SLC FSDO...there are no SOPs in the FAA but there are some jerks!

The term "Standards" in the title Flight Standards District Office is an oxymoron.

It looks to me as if you're between a rock and hard place. I BELIEVE (and I am no expert on this) that if your engine was converted TO an A1A, then it is officially an A1A, and anything approved on the A1A should be approved on your engine. If that's the case, the Plane Power unit is a PMA'd replacement for the alternator that was born on the A1A, and your mechanic MAY be able to install it as a minor alteration, based on the PMA.

If it's been converted to an A1A, then it IS an A1A....

Maybe.

MTV

Lets try this one more time..................

Maybe you need to thank your guy, pay him and go get another one you can still be friends

My kids used to have this habit of asking a question then arguing about the answer lets try to get past that. I can tell you there are a few people at the supplier that have no clue what they can or cant do. I wont go into that here it wouldn't be fair to them, but let's just say there catalog may not completely match the PMA approval on file with the feds, a simple but overlooked application error

Its your plane not your mechanics always remember that, it will be you in front of the judge not him

It baffles me (airplane humor) how some guys just make a habit of complicating everything.
Pick up the phone call another FISDO and ask simply I HAVE AN A1A ENGINE CAN I PUT A PMA ALTERNATOR ON IT they will laugh and wonder why your really calling and if you tell them a long story of all the trouble up to this point they will go HOLLY SHIT and want to do a full blown investigation of you and your mechanic.

Or you may want to do this.......

Plane power AL12-70 make sure you reference the Lycoming part number for the old alternator in the log book

Plane power doesn't have STCs they are PMA and the 12-70 comes with all the mounts and brackets or you can get a 12-P70 no brackets and about 100 bucks less.

(O-360-A1A2, -A2A2, -A3A2, -B1A2, -B2A2, -B3A2, -C1A2, -C2A2, -C3A2, -D1A2, -D2A2, -D3A2, -E1A2, -E2A2, -E3A2, IO-360-A1A2, -A2A2, -A3A2, -B1A2, -B2A2, -B3A2, -C1A2, -C2A2, -C3A2, -D1A2, -D2A2, -D3A2, -E1A2, -E2A2, -E3A2)

Log book entry and a revised W&B your off and running

If you still don't believe it go to FAA PMA data look them up you will see all the PMA files that cover each engine

What they are currently telling you is they don't have PMA approval for your current other guy brand alt. Read the above steps closely

Hi Guys

Thanks for all the help. A couple of great BCP members have offered to help me get the Alternator and the Tires and Nosefork done so it looks like there is light at the end of the tunnel. Plus two DER's have got back to me also and they both think they can help. I am meeting one today to look at my plane and conversion parts for the larger tires and nosefork. He didn't think it would be a problem and is going to give me a idea of what it would cost.

Mr Scout, sorry if I sound lke your kids, I can be hardheaded. What I really want is a signature on a piece of paper like others have done before me. I do have options here and I would rather put the money in the gas tanks and fly to where prople are a little more open minded to resolve these issues than tear into the plane again. I will check into doing it your way if I need to.

MTV, the correct way to change a Lycoming engine desination is to Stamp a "C" after the model number in accordance with Lycoming Service Instruction #1304J. Note the change in the logbook and then get a 337 stating the changes were in accordance with Lycoming document #SSP-108. In my case I had to get a new Data Plate because someone had tried to change the "D" to an "A". Data Plates cost $125 and the check needs to be accompanied by a letter from the FAA stateing why you need it. I was really sweating that for a while because a A1D is not approved for the Avcon STC. According to the FAA, my engine is not a A1A but a A1D changed to a A1A configuration. I know it's anal and there is no difference between the two engines, but that is how it is in my world.

Thanks again for all the help and info.

Jerry

Regarding nose-heavy CG: do you have a lightweight starter, from Skytec or B&C? That'll save you a few pounds. I'm not too sure where the various alternators come in weight-wise, I have an Interav set-up which has worked well so far. I can't find any weight data for it in the catalogs, but It's not esp small so I suspect that it's not esp light either. I'm not sure where PlanePower comes in weight-wise versus stocl either. I don't know why someone doesn't make a small light belt-drive 30-amp or so alternator STC-approved for Lycomings, IMHO that's all most of us need unless there's a lot of lighting installed. Those vacuum-pump-pad mounted B&C alternators look really sweeet but no STC, plus they're pretty low on output due to slow rotation speed so a field-approval is unlikely as it might not meet full-load draw requirements.
Jerry, you mentioned that your CG is 4" forward of stock. Was moving the battery aft part of the engine convesion? That goes a helluva long way toward moving the CG back. If it's still on the firewall, maybe installing a lightweight Odyssey battery would be helpful- they're about 7 or 8 pounds lighter than a G25 or RG25. Plus they can be mounted with a lightweight bracket instead of a heavier battery box if you wanna save more weight. But it does have to be field approved, and the bracket mount complicates that a bit. Sounds like you a full plate with field approvals from your FSDO, so maybe you wouldn't wanna add to it.
Good luck, I hope you get it all squared away soon.

Eric

Hotrod, It has an Air Tec 60 Amp Alternator and it is 9.75 lbs vs Lycomings 16.75 lbs. I belive it is made by Mitsubishi. The battery is already in the back and I don't know if that was part of the STC. I think the 175's were in back already to offset the weight of the geared GO-300. I think it is OK and after it is flying I want to put in an extended baggage compartment so that should offset the weight up front.

My old 172 could float in at stall speed greasy side first but this thing takes a nose dive as soon as it hits 60. Really took me by surprise the first landing. I was reading about this on another site and one guys Avcon was nose heavy and another guy said his W&B was right in the middle. Could be possible they changed the motor mount but you would think they all should be pretty close when they are empty.

Jerry

Jaerl wrote:My old 172 could float in at stall speed greasy side first but this thing takes a nose dive as soon as it hits 60. Really took me by surprise the first landing. I was reading about this on another site and one guys Avcon was nose heavy and another guy said his W&B was right in the middle. Could be possible they changed the motor mount but you would think they all should be pretty close when they are empty.

Jerry

If my memory is correct, Avcon or some facsimile back in the day, did 180 hp. conversions on 172's and 175's where you could choose between the c/s prop or fixed pitch. The weight of the governor and heavier hub made a difference on a lightweight airplane such as yours. I recall someone saying that the nose would slam if it got too slow. This may explain the diff. in other's W&B. A buddy has a fixed pitch prop on his 170/180hp and he likes the lighter weight and less complexity. There are arguments for and against either but if you plan to fly low and slow, scouring the earth for interesting sights, I wouldnt think a c/s prop would be at the top of one's list.

Your extended baggage mod will remedy this, I would think. 25lbs of ballast or so. I'm excited for you to have your plane up and running and the perma-grin you will have. My plane has been down for an extended 6 week annual and I'm going nuckin' futs.

Leemer, I think the Bush conversions had the fixed pitch and the Avcon is a CS. Both come out of Udall, KS. Man, a six week annual. Is you Mech planning on reitring after this one or just going somewhere warm?

I wouldn't waste any useful load till after a good rig job. You can do lots for slow flight or cruise. With everything you have had wrong with your project you can bet it hasn't been rigged for a long time. (ands that's not just your mechanic checking cable tension)

Here some photos of the plane before we started working on it. It had 8:00's on the mains and a 5" on the front. Leaky Goodyear brakes and only one of them worked.


http://s720.photobucket.com/albums/ww20 ... 101/8125T/

Speaking of lightweight alternators, today I saw a nice set-up on a Lycoming-powered Swift-- a very small Nippondenso alternator which I think puts out about 30 amps. Sweet! I found it hard to believe but the guy told me he had a field approval on it. If and when my Interav alt goes tits-up, I think I'll look into getting one of these.

Eric