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Survival Gear

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Re: Survival Gear

Superdave wrote:
whee wrote:gotta agree with gb. no need to get your panties in a wad because someone disagrees with the way you think about survival gear :roll:


That is funny Whee I remember you getting a little testy because some one disagreed with you about what might have happened with an accident.


Glad to know you are still around SD. I did get a little testy because to me it was obvious that ditching in a school yard was a bad idea when there was a field next door...maybe 182STOL feels the same way about his point but I didn't trash talk anybody...
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Re: Survival Gear

mtv wrote:For those who hang their survival packs on the backs of airplane front seats, I hope your front seats don't fold. With forty pounds hung on the seatback of YOUR seat, in a suddent deceleration, that's forty more pounds of acceleration your shoulder harnesses are going to have to absorb and decelerate.

I would NOT hang survival gear on the back of a folding seat back for that reason. I've seen too many people even with shoulder harnesses who kissed the instrument panel or some other hardware during a sudden deceleration, and I don't want to add any more mass to that process.

Having a kit where you can get at it quickly is good, but frankly, if you've got a well thought out survival vest, and can't get anything else out of the plane, you should still be in pretty good shape to survive.

"The stuff in the back (or on the seat back) is camping gear. If it's not on your PERSON when you go out the door, it's not survival gear" Ray Tremblay, Anchorage, AK.

MTV


That's why you hang the vest on the seat back when you AREN'T FLYING and put it ON WHEN FLYING just as you get into the plane. Works just fine
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Re: Survival Gear

Per some previous comments on this thread, some are concerned with the weight of a survival vest on a seat back. If the weight of the vest would create a deceleration force problem hanging on the back of the seat, it would exert the same force on the pilot restraints if it were wrapped around the pilot.

Maybe a thin pack on the inside of the pilot's side door that you could rip off Velcro mounts and get out of the wreck with it on your way out. Seems like it wouldn't be much effort to have a pull strap/handle on it so you could just tear it off the door if you're in a hurry... anyone thought about this possibility?
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Re: Survival Gear

Damn good idea.........
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Re: Survival Gear

or incorporate the survival gear into a seat back cushion that you could just strap on...think parachute in fighter plane

could get a lot of shit into a package 3/4" thick behind a 3/4 " thick foam pad......that way, every passenger could have one too.....and you wouldn't have to screw with the FEDs for approval .....like your flap handle extension.....

How many of those who carry a signal mirror actually know how to use it? or have practiced using one? tried to light a fire with one hand using wet fuel?.....seems like an insurance policy...feel warm and fuzzy because you have it....then reading the fine print when you have a claim......when you are beat up,wet, cold, bleeding and in shock may not be the best time to "read the instructions".......
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Re: Survival Gear

Interesting response/blast.

Here was the quote from my comment in part, which apparently generated that: "Not too much jungle survival in this country--but as you suggest, the basics of survival are pretty consistent, regardless of where you wind up." Boy, that really sounds like a major condemnation of his assertions, eh? Oh well.

So, you want to know who I am? I worked for 34 years for the USFWS, about 29 of that as a Wildlife Biologist/Pilot in Alaska. In that capacity, I flew various natural resource missions throughout Alaska a total of a little over 11,000 hours of working flight time. In the process, I got stuck out more than a couple times, but was fortunate enough to have some stuff with me, and survived quite nicely. My first three years in AK were in Cold Bay. Look it up...it's out there, and anywhere you stop out there is the boonies. I got interested in brown bears out there, mostly cause they came to check out the town every night.... I then moved to Kodiak for eight years where I worked on brown bear projects largely, as well as doing law enforcement work (we had some 350 commercial operators on that area), and whatever else needed to be done. Eventually, I opted to dry out and moved to Fairbanks-where I spent 19 years working the area north of Fairbanks, in the Upper Yukon Valley, working on black bears, moose, subsistence issues, law enforcement work, etc.

Having worked for the federal government for 34 years plus military time, and hitting an age where sitting in an airplane for seven hours at a crack isn't exactly my cup of tea, I learned of a teaching position at the University of Minnesota, Crookston, in the Natural Resouce Department. I retired from federal service and moved here in 12/05. I left Alaska regretfully, for a new career, not because I couldn't work there any more. I know about air taxi work, and I'd been out there fighting weather, etc, and I didn't feel like going back into more of the same after retirement. Nobody forced me to leave, though there were no doubt a few who were glad to see me leave, since I made them look bad. When you have full time pilots flying less than half the amount of flight time that a "dual function" pilot is....

As to checkrides, I took at least two and often three or four checkrides a year when working for FWS--generally a wheel ride and a float ride annually, and those often included a ski check, low level check, off field landing check, etc, depending on the sequence. I never had a re-check or a failure of a ride. There were a few of those rides that weren't pretty, mind you....like the time I got major stuck 16 miles south of FAI with Bill Babcock as a check airman in a 185 on wheel skis during my annual ski check. Took us a few hours to get un-stuck, but we did, and when we got back to town, Bill asked me when my next checkride was, and I told him "June on floats". He said "I'll bring my swim trunks" :D .

While working for FWS in Alaska, I had the opportunity to fly pretty much every airplane they operated, though I regretfully was never checked out in the Goose before they were sent to museums. I flew pretty much equal quantities in Super Cubs, Huskys, C-185, 206, Beavers, and somewhat less but substantial time in Maules, Scouts, C-180s and Founds. I've owned a 90 hp J-3 on floats/wheels, a PA-12, a PA-18, a C-180 and a C-170, which I still own. All these, except the PA-12 (which I owned while in CDB) went from wheels or skis to floats as appropriate.

For a number of years, I worked with the Alaskan Aviation Safety Foundation, trying to bring good quality safety programs to Alaskans, and working to keep safety and functionality a prime consideration in rule making in Alaska. I don't want to think how many hours I worked with various groups during the design and formulation of the eastern Alaska MOA complex to try to provide civil aviators with a means to get around that proposed monstrosity, while at the same time offering the AF the ability to train in the airspace.

So, Bill, I guess I might suggest that there are always folks around who have some sour grapes to offer.

There are many, many folks around who have far more flying experience than I do. There are lots of people who are far more knowledgeable with regards to survival than I am. Nevertheless, I flew pretty much all over the state of Alaska (with the exception of Southeast Alaska, where I've never been) conducting a variety of tasks ranging from personnel transport to low level survey to radio telemetry and LE work for almost thirty years. And, in my free time, I used my personal airplanes to access the Alaska wilderness for recreation... I've slept out at -45 F in the wilderness, and that wasn't because of training nor was it intended. I've spent a couple days hiding from weather in a Beaver on the west side of Kodiak Island, when I never should have been out there anyway, and I've tent camped in many parts of Alaska--intentionally. Does that make me an expert? Not necessarily. But, now you know who I am, so take what I write here for what its' worth.

So, why not just sort out your tiger stripe camo underwear and consider that maybe--just maybe someone else MIGHT have something worthwhile to contribute to a conversation on the internet?

MTV
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Re: Survival Gear

Mike,

Wonderful response to an unwarranted personal attack. You are one of the contributors who's posts I always read twice because they are well thought out and well presented...no nonsense and no BS. Having met you and listened to a presentation you made at a MT Aviation Conference, I would have expected nothing less than the tasteful reply you posted. Ya got class guy......

Bill White
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Re: Survival Gear

A lot of disgraceful bullshit came out of no where here #-o

If I'm flying in the desert or in Laos I know who to listen to. If I'm flying in interior Alaska I imagine I'll take advice from a different party altogether.
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Re: Survival Gear

EZFlap wrote:Per some previous comments on this thread, some are concerned with the weight of a survival vest on a seat back. If the weight of the vest would create a deceleration force problem hanging on the back of the seat, it would exert the same force on the pilot restraints if it were wrapped around the pilot.



With all due respect to MTV, I thought the same thing. The main point is you should be wearing the damn thing. Last thing I need to be worrying about in an emergency is trying to shrug on my survival vest as the plane goes down.
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Re: Survival Gear

Maybe we should follow comedian Steven Wright's suggestion and build our whole planes out of that black box stuff.
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Re: Survival Gear

n2485q wrote:Mike,
Wonderful response to an unwarranted personal attack. You are one of the contributors who's posts I always read twice because they are well thought out and well presented...no nonsense and no BS. ............


Ditto. I don't necesarily always agree with MTV, but I do respect his viewpoints & read his posts with an open mind. That second-party put-down attempt was bullshit. People shouldn't say anything in a post that they wouldn't say (and back up) face-to-face, or have said to them.

Eric
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Re: Survival Gear

I don't know any pilots in Fairbanks who don't have strong opinions about other pilots. Just like on here. Lots of family squabbles.

It strikes me that on a web forum (just like in real life) you often don't know who you are talking to. The 10,000 hour airline pilot who asks about the equipment needed for basic GPS IFR may come of as a newby unless you know better. The relatively new pilot who might have crewed helicopters on fires for fifteen years. The retired guy who you would never know is a combat vet because he never mentions it. Whatever.

Especially if they don't brag a lot. Ahem.

Seems to me that everyone has something to contribute. And if they put out something erroneous I think we could rely on the peanut gallery pointing it out in about a nanosecond =D>
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Re: Survival Gear

once&futr_alaskaflyer wrote:
With all due respect to MTV, I thought the same thing. The main point is you should be wearing the damn thing. Last thing I need to be worrying about in an emergency is trying to shrug on my survival vest as the plane goes down.


Even if some people can survive anywhere in the world with what they have in their shirt pocket, I feel strongly that there are things the rest of us can carry in an airplane that will increase our chances and even make it tolerable... many of those things cannot fit in a vest... and many of those things should not be in the pilot's way of flying the airplane if they were in a vest. I can't carry a couple of gallons of water in a vest, but it damn well should be in the airplane when I'm flying.

( Some of the guys on the internet groups gave me a big ration of s**t for inventing a one inch diameter flap handle extension, pointing out that it takes up room in the airplane and could interfere with your hands or feet or nose or whatever. I can't wait to hear if any of the same people will argue that you carry your tent, pistol, 2 gallons of water, flashlight, food rations, first aId, sleeping bag, survival watermelons, etc. on your person where it could interfere with the controls. )

Most of us are indeed amateurs when it comes to survival training... I got no battle tested tiger stripe camo underwear and I don't camp out with the Kodiak Island bears for fun. So for this plump, untrained, out-of-shape amateur, I need to have a lot more stuff to get through it. Obviously some of this stuff will not be available if the airplane burns, but that doesn't nearly justify giving up even the chance of it being there after a non-fire crash.
Last edited by EZFlap on Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Survival Gear

EZ,

Please note a couple of things:

1) I never suggested and certainly would never suggest that you should not carry additional gear in a survival kit in your airplane. My point was and is, that you MAY not be able to get to that stuff, in which case what you've got in your pockets is what you will have to survive with. That's all. I carry a survival kit in my airplane, and have for decades. Point is, I also carry some vital stuff in my pockets.

2) Your flap device may be fine for lots of people. Good for you for getting it approved. Just because it is the greatest thing since sliced bread, however, doesn't mean that everyone is going to like the idea. You are in the business of selling the things--I would expect you to be positive about them. I don't see any particular value to them, but that doesn't mean they have no value to others. Get over it, please-my comments weren't a personal attack, they were just my opinion that there isn't a problem that your device is trying to fix. Others obviously think there is. Good on yer.

Again, this is the internet, folks. You put stuff on here which may or may not be useful to whomever reads it. Its pretty much up to the reader to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I have told my students for years to try things in an airplane my way, but then to think about the process or the tool, if you will--consider whether it really makes sense or not, then talk it over with other who have some experience for their perspective, then use it or toss it out. You won't hurt my feelings at all if you don't accept what I offer in the way of advice or suggestions.

But please don't get your underwear in a knot because you disagree with me, or vice versa. These are opinions, not bullets we're posting here.

MTV
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Re: Survival Gear to mr MTV

182 STOL driver wrote:Have a friend who is professional 135 pilot who sent me the following about mr. MTV -----


Wow, the old "background check" zinger. Ha!

Is this why you're so bent out of shape?

I hadn't noticed how out of shape this thread had gotten. Lame.
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Re: Survival Gear

EZFlap wrote:
once&futr_alaskaflyer wrote:
With all due respect to MTV, I thought the same thing. The main point is you should be wearing the damn thing. Last thing I need to be worrying about in an emergency is trying to shrug on my survival vest as the plane goes down.


Even if some people can survive anywhere in the world with what they have in their shirt pocket, I feel strongly that there are things the rest of us can carry in an airplane that will increase our chances and even make it tolerable... many of those things cannot fit in a vest... and many of those things should not be in the pilot's way of flying the airplane if they were in a vest. I can't carry a couple of gallons of water in a vest, but it damn well should be in the airplane when I'm flying.



Like Mike above I carry both :| I have a dry bag backpack in the back with everything I would need to live comfortably (except beer) and I have the same vest GBflyer posted on my body which has everything that might keep me alive for a few hours or a few days depending on how badly I am injured or how bad the weather is. Stuff like a few swallows of clean water, a headnet, painkillers and antibiotics, things to stuff in or seal a gaping wound. Signaling devices. Extra eyeglasses. My PLB. Plus like I said before I dress for the crash.

I haven't parachuted into the jungles of Vietnam but I have been hurt bad in the backcountry before and I have rescued a hell of a lot of taxpayers over the years (including plane crash victims both living and dead) and I kind of based what I put in my vest on my experience. A lot of it came from Rob ar preparedpilot.com because I am too darned lazy to put it together myself and I don't want to steal from my other camping gear etc.
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Re: Survival Gear

whee wrote:
Superdave wrote:
whee wrote:gotta agree with gb. no need to get your panties in a wad because someone disagrees with the way you think about survival gear :roll:


That is funny Whee I remember you getting a little testy because some one disagreed with you about what might have happened with an accident.


Glad to know you are still around SD. I did get a little testy because to me it was obvious that ditching in a school yard was a bad idea when there was a field next door...maybe 182STOL feels the same way about his point but I didn't trash talk anybody...


I have been really busy trying to get the knot out of my panties.......
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Re: Survival Gear

I haven't posted here on BCP for a number of months now for several personal reasons, and instead, I'll lurk now and then to read a few posts that seem interesting. But today I received a couple of emails from folks on this site, accusing me of being the Part 135 guy in Alaska who wrote about Mike Vivion in a personal letter.

Let's nip that shit in the bud right now.

I've flown commercially in Alaska off and on for over 20 years now, but to the best of my knowledge I have never met Mike, nor flown in the same place at the same time as he did. I hate to say it, but my memory is getting shorter than my Johnson, and there's probably several hundred guys I've flown with and worked with over the years, and I couldn't tell you their names now if my life depended on it.

Anyway, until I joined this site I had never heard of Mike Vivion, or MTV, and I have never heard a single one of my Alaska co-workers ever mention his name. I know absolutely nothing about MTV's flying career or skill level other than what's posted here. Sometimes he and I agree, sometimes we butt heads. I can't speak for Mike, but I don't think either one of us have ever worried about what the other has said.

Those of you who know me and who have flown with me, know that I am not the shy and retiring type. If I have a problem with MTV, or anyone else for that matter, I'll tell them to their face and out in the open.

Gump
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Re: Survival Gear

Gump,

Well, in any case, thanks for re-joining the unwashed here. I never spent much time in NW Alaska, and most of that time was spent trying to get the hey outta there.

I never suspected you, and these "friends" sometimes are a little hard to pin down, if you know what I mean.

Alaska is indeed a big place, and it is almost about seven totally different worlds, aviation wise.

If it's any comfort, the thought never crossed my mind that you had anything to do with this whole line of BS.

But, fer crying out loud, will you PUUUULEASSEE resume posting on this here web site. Many of us have missed your pearls of wisdom recently, myself included. And, I'm sorry your rejoining this august group had to be in response to something like this.

MTV
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Re: Survival Gear

When you get your list put together, try putting those items in a survival vest that you wear while flying. If you have to get out of an aircraft quickly, the survival kit you wear may be all that will be left....anywhere else may prove inaccessible in event of fire, etc.
5 suggestions: immediate action shelter (big orange trash bag to wear as shelter..$4.00) from Emergency Response International eri-online.com, blast match with vaseline impregnated cotton balls for fire starter, 550 parachute cord, heavy shank survival knife, and a SPOT. All these fit easily in a survival vest. ERI teaches survival to the Montana Search Pilot's clinics put on by the Montana DOT....very worthwhile.....blue skies!
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