A couple years before author, lecturer, and mountain flying expert Sparky Imeson was killed in a plane crash (2009), he was the instructor in a backcountry flight giving another pilot mountain flying lessons when the aircraft was caught in a downdraft, crashed and burned (2007).

Read the accounts (both points of view) here (scroll to bottom of page):

http://www.mountainflying.com/Menu/fly_ ... icles.html

to fully understand why "survival" equipment is on your body, and "camping" equipment is the stuff in the aircraft.

And also why staying with the downed aircraft is usually the best choice.

HOT DAMN this has gotten Lively, It is a good thread tho, got GUMP out of the bushes, Now if we can get the Patrol Guy and Greg to make a video, and Coyote Ugly to pitch in and sing a tune about it, it should have all my favorite OPINIONATERS all in one thread, OH yea, Rob can you make a comment to, ya got have time somewhere when your not flyin around being retired??
I agree we take it all in rattle it around in our own can and use what works! Hell if you didn't here some of it from someone else you would never have time to make all the mistakes yourself or live thru some of them!!.
I agree with some, others I don't, but lets leave the HEARSAY from someone else BS to some other site.
GT

Hot Damn is right! Boy, I started a firestorm. But, my original question still stands: What are the top five you'd wear on your body? Please; let's not get into g- forces and stuff. Just the gear please. Thanks,

Alex

That's an interesting article although I would quibble with the statement that they could tell the aircraft was not producing power because the prop blades were bent back. I have the prop from my C177 that I crashed at WOT, 2700 rpm. The blade that hit the ground the hardest is bent back at almost a 90 degree angle. The other blade is bent back approx 20 degrees. Also I disagree that survival equipment is only what you're wearing. Perhaps if you're flying in a tandem plane whose covering is made out of a kleenex. A metal plane would not have burned so fast, most likely not the fuselage at all. My survival kit is a back pack that sits on the passenger side floor, I have to go right by it as I exit

I agree. Survival gear is MORE than what you're wearing. But, I think it is prudent to wear at least some gear. That's why I asked for the top five wearable items.

Alex wrote:Hot Damn is right! Boy, I started a firestorm. But, my original question still stands: What are the top five you'd wear on your body? Please; let's not get into g- forces and stuff. Just the gear please. Thanks,

Alex

PLB
good knife-Gerber Hinderer
good firestarter material
shelter material like a space blanket
handgun and ammo. My small one in my vest is a .22 mag wheelgun

With those five, I would have a pretty good start to make myself somewhat comfy based upon experience once on Kodiak Island and many years traipsing around the Great Land. Shame you limited it to just 5....some cord would have been nice. Course, I could just pick one item - my survival vest that I'm wearing when I'm flying. That has the above and much more. Water isn't a prob in most of Alaska, long as you stay out of the stagnant beaver areas. Look for good, clear, rapid flow and appropriate clean filtration materials (like sand) that the water flows through.

Ouch!!!! Man, step away from the computer for a couple days!

Hope my comments did not offend since they were buried in there were the fire storm started.

Just wanted to bring out that your attitude, knowledge and creativity is at least, if not more important than what you carry. I'm not advocating that everyone needs to enroll in the jungle survival course, but that you should at least get some good books on the subject and learn and practice before you get in the situation. Having said that, i usually carry lots of "camping gear" especially when i was flying in Alaska, there is a required list, and for good reasons. My survival gear i carry in Texas is much different (and much less).

But Alex My top 5 are:
1. A good knife
2. fire making supplies
3. emergency blanket
4. 550 cord
5. electrical tape

I do carry more in my vest, alot of them items that are listed previously, a pistol, water, iodine, signal mirror. If i get to move back to Alaska (going to look at a job in White Mountain next month, Yes!!) i will break down and spend the money for a PLB.
But, there are my top 5. I have actually gotten to use those items, and not much else, after a real helicopter crash while in the military and got along well.

FWIW i don't have any camo underware, don't wear any. That way i don't get them in a knot. And hey, lets try to play nicely with others.

Good to hear from Gump, Missed ya!

Bonanzaman,

Don't believe metal airplanes can't get you in the same situation JC and Sparky got to?? How about the Cessna 206 out of Kalispell several years back. I've talked to the survivors of that one, and it happened just about as fast as the Husky catching on fire....

http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_i ... 1543&key=1

Jody Hogg was one of the survivors of that accident, and her quick thinking, physical and mental toughness is the only reason anyone survived that accident.

Folks, I think EVERYone agrees that it would be foolish to fly around the backcountry (or for that matter, civilization) without some survival gear in the airplane. Several of us, and a review of more than a few accidents has suggested that one should ALSO carry some survival gear on your person.

The man's question was: "What are the top five items you would carry ON YOUR PERSON?"

I think there are some great answers so far, some lists I concur with, some I'd change, but we are all different, have different skill sets, different experience and operate in different environments.

MTV

Best way to survive is to get found quickly.

1. Satellite phone
2. Cellular phone
3. Spot Messenger/PLB/406 EPIRB or all depending on who's Internet opinion you value most.
4. Hand Held VHF Aircraft band (and marine if operating near the water). Personal flotation is also helpful.
5. Signal Flares/smoke so search and rescue can see you. Very hard to see someone on the ground from the air. Also good for building a fire in the event that it is cold.

I agree with the others, dress for egress. The rest is camping gear.

If you are so disabled after the crash as to not be able to use any of these items in some form, then you are coyote bait anyway. Today in these modern times, someone will get to you in a couple of hours, generally speaking. Of course there are exceptions...

My opinion only.

gb

My five key items that I always fly with in my pocket are:

1.) American Express - The platinum card doubles as a signal mirror and if you cup it it will concentrate the sun and start a fire.
2.) Visa - Sharpen the edges on rocks and a correct throwing technique will bring down small game.
3.) Master Card - Great for skinning and preparing meat and will even shave trees for shelter and warmth
4.) Blue Shield Group Card - Tells them where to return the body when they find you.
5.) $100 Bill - Ever hear of bribes?

Yup! That about covers it!

mtv wrote:Bonanzaman,

Don't believe metal airplanes can't get you in the same situation JC and Sparky got to?? How about the Cessna 206 out of Kalispell several years back. I've talked to the survivors of that one, and it happened just about as fast as the Husky catching on fire....

http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_i ... 1543&key=1


MTV

Of course it can happen, I allowed for that in my post, but it's less likely. But any fire means a fabric airplane is instantly an inferno. A metal plane may eventually burn completely but if it does it will burn slower in the same type of crash.

all great ones...here is one not brought up...well, i guess it was. while staying at sulphur last june for a week, not near long enough, we learned that you can get a text message in and out of the frank, not a phone call...would have that in my vest with my spot, small cannon, called a thunder five,firestarter...and good hiking boots on as well.

the better mtn. courses bring in an expert from the local usfs, and spend several hours on helping u start fires, build shelters, and cover this topic very well...

Have your cell phone on and up on the glareshield. Every time your cell phone checks in it's almost as good as a SPOT or PLB hit. People have been found here in Montana after a plane crash based in part on their cell phone.

Bonanza Man wrote:Have your cell phone on and up on the glareshield. Every time your cell phone checks in it's almost as good as a SPOT or PLB hit. People have been found here in Montana after a plane crash based in part on their cell phone.

Thanks B-Man!! I hadn't thought of that. In fact, I've been turning my phone OFF to save the battery (goes dead fast when trying to roam and find a signal). I'll start to leave it on and plugged into the cig. lighter!

Interesting idea that my feeble mind just came up with....

Have a SPOT device up on the glareshield like 182STOL and others already do. Make up a small lever or trip or weight or whatever that automatically hits the 911 button on the SPOT in a crash, like the crash trigger on an ELT. Between what the SPOT does through satellite/GPS and internet, and how the ELT functions on 121.5 or 406 RF, chances are that someone will know where you are pretty fast.

This idea is not a substitute for survival gear or good training. It is however something that should hopefully drastically shorten the time you have to use that equipment and training before you get to go home and explain it all to your wife and insurance company.

And while we're on the subject of feeble minded ideas for survival equipment... how about a fire-resistant compartment built into the wingtips of the aircraft, far outboard of the fuel tanks... like in the wingtips themselves? Fire experts and fire survivors can chime in on this, I'm not experienced by any means. But I would guess that you could build a reasonably fire-resistant compartment into a big hollow wingtip that would have a good chance of being ugly but intact after a fire. You can put a fair amount of stuff into a typical Cessna wingtip, all wrapped in a fireproof blanket or thermo-safe fiberglass sack. The idea would be that you leave the airplane with your vest, which has a multi-tool in it, then you can come back and unscrew the charred wingtip and have some usable stuff inside the fireproof bag. Don't they sell fireproof fabrics that would protect against a 5 or 10 minute fire?

1SeventyZ wrote:

hotrod150 wrote:Top 5 (no particular order):
toilet paper
drinking water
pistol
condoms
candy bar

I like Eric's version of a survival situation.

Zane and Flight:
Guys, one of the things that hurts aviation is people getting bad advice
from people who do not have credentials to be giving it. I've seen this
at airports all over the world for along long time, and I've seen people
lose an airplane or somebody get hurt because Joe Shmo said you should
do it this way. The internet groups like this have made this problem a
lot worse.

Sorry if I offended anyone but have little tolerance for people who seem
to be experts on everything from ultralights to learjets or coffee cans
'n string all the way to the latest garmin whizbanger GPS. When I saw
this huge amount of posts by one guy who always seems to know better
than everyone else it sets off warning lights for me. Saw more than one
guy KIA because of bad advice dammit! I mentioned it to someone on
another forum, and it turns out the guy is known up in Alaska and maybe
more talk than walk. So I posted what I heard. My intenton posting that
is for people to FILTER the advice they see based on experience before
they put that advice into practice.

I don't hate the guy or want anything bad to happen to him... have a
nice life mr. mtv - tailwinds to you. Theres lots of things I don't give
advice on because I'm not an expert on everything. Someone who gives
advice to others just needs to be able to back it up with experience to
be safe. Wanna talk about back country flying or maintaining airplanes
or surviving a crash and living thru it... I can help because I been
there more than most.

182 STOL driver wrote:

1SeventyZ wrote:

hotrod150 wrote:Top 5 (no particular order):
toilet paper
drinking water
pistol
condoms
candy bar

I like Eric's version of a survival situation.

Zane and Flight:
Guys, one of the things that hurts aviation is people getting bad advice
from people who do not have credentials to be giving it. I've seen this
at airports all over the world for along long time, and I've seen people
lose an airplane or somebody get hurt because Joe Shmo said you should
do it this way. The internet groups like this have made this problem a
lot worse.

Sorry if I offended anyone but have little tolerance for people who seem
to be experts on everything from ultralights to learjets or coffee cans
'n string all the way to the latest garmin whizbanger GPS. When I saw
this huge amount of posts by one guy who always seems to know better
than everyone else it sets off warning lights for me. Saw more than one
guy KIA because of bad advice dammit! I mentioned it to someone on
another forum, and it turns out the guy is known up in Alaska and maybe
more talk than walk. So I posted what I heard. My intenton posting that
is for people to FILTER the advice they see based on experience before
they put that advice into practice.

I don't hate the guy or want anything bad to happen to him... have a
nice life mr. mtv - tailwinds to you. Theres lots of things I don't give
advice on because I'm not an expert on everything. Someone who gives
advice to others just needs to be able to back it up with experience to
be safe. Wanna talk about back country flying or maintaining airplanes
or surviving a crash and living thru it... I can help because I been
there more than most.

You didn't offend me! Just felt you should have went directly to MTV in a PM to confront him with the information you recieved from your friend. Not by ruinning a good thread by posting that information in a public forum.

I don't want to see anybody get bad advise myself, but leave it up to me or others to decide who's fake and who's real. If I think someone is a fake, yahoo, wannabee, hot shot, etc., I just blow that person off and move on. I would like to think that most of us here are smart enough to figure out what is good advise and what is bad advise without slamming someone in a public forum. Anyway, I'm going to leave it at that. I'm over it. Time to go out and have fun flying!!

delete

Mike, I know I appreciate what you bring to the forums. And doing so with the known replies people will/can bring. I've met you briefly, sat through some of your presentations, and discerned what you have brought and each time I can say that I've learned something that I think will make me a safer pilot. Better yet you are willing to share your experiences good and bad for the sake of sharing those lessons in hopes of bettering the aviation community. I appreciate that and desire you to continue that service to the aviation community.

I've also had the oppurtunity to chat with Bill and have learned many things about flying and aircraft from him as well. Overall you both have much to add to the knowledge base of all. Forums can be a difficult place to pass knowledge as personality and body language do not read into it at all. None of us know all, but sharing our experiences is valuable.

MTV:

I love reading your posts. But, like everything else I read on the internet, I consider if carefully before acting. Keep it up.

Thanks,

Alex