I'm still looking up obtuse.

Hot Air difficulty level is higher, because of the aviation related handicap.

The Cessna Skycatcher ( with O-200 ?) is made in China already and agreements to train 150 helicopter pilots/yr have been cut with Minnesota State University. Some things we in the US will always do better as alluded to in the last paragraph.


September 3, 2010
China trip goes beyond pilot training
MSU to train as many as 150 rescue helicopter pilots a year

By Robb Murray
Free Press Staff Writer

MANKATO — Minnesota State University, Mankato city and airport officials say their trip to China was a raging success that reached far beyond the original scope of the mission.

MSU President Richard Davenport and a contingent of city and business leaders returned Monday from China after spending a week there meeting with government, business and university leaders.

Originally, the main goal of the trip was to shore up an agreement to train Chinese pilots at the Mankato airport through MSU’s aviation program. Davenport said he expects the first Chinese pilots to be in Mankato in about a year.

When they come they’ll primarily be trained to fly helicopters because of the Chinese government’s new commitment to safety for its citizens.

Driven by the massive loss of life in the wake of earthquakes that struck rural parts of China, the government has devised a plan to create a series of emergency rescue centers, each with about 20 helicopters, with about two or three pilots per helicopter. The rescue centers will also have a modern, fully staffed hospital. China estimates it will need 12,000 pilots for this.

They’re hoping, ultimately, to train roughly 150 of them per year at MSU.

But the trip wasn’t limited to aviation. While there, the group also met with Renmin University, which is reportedly China’s third-ranked higher education institution.
Talks about the pilot need, Davenport said, led the group to learn more about the reasons China was developing the Emergency Rescue Centers. From that, they discovered the Minnesota State Colleges and Universities system is poised to help in many ways as China figures how to staff its airports and hospitals.

MnSCU, Davenport said, has experts in emergency training that could be valuable to the Chinese government as they carry out their Emergency Rescue Center plans.

“China was an outstanding experience for all of us,” Davenport said. “Overall, it exceeded everyone’s expectations.”

Davenport said Friday that Changdong Xu, who invited the delegation to China, told him there would be a five-year window where institutions can have a major impact on China’s future.

As for aviation, curriculum is being prepared right now to teach helicopter training. Adjunct instructors proficient in helicopter flight will probably be added to the program. And if the number of pilots predicted for the program actually show up, MSU may need to add faculty to the program.

Aviation assistant professor Tom Peterson said he spoke with government officials in China about the training and they said they hoped training could start soon.

“They’re very concerned about when they can get their pilots,” Peterson said. “They’ve been using a lot of foreign pilots. Now they want their own.”

On a somewhat unrelated note, the group was asked about Mankato Mayor John Brady’s presence and whether it affected the trip.

Brady was arrested and cited for drunken driving on his way to catch a flight to China. He missed his original flight but caught another one in time, Davenport said, to not miss any of the meetings the group had set up with government and business leaders in China.

“He performed admirably,” Davenport said.

RDUStinson wrote:I sure don't see us as the same country that was capable of churning out tens of thousands of B17s when we had to...

Send Boeing a purchase order & they will get cracking up here in the Seattle area. Or in a year or two, on the 787 line #2 down your way. If the military would get off their duff & award the new tanker contract, you'd see some action. That's probably the difference- nowadays instead of gearing up and fighting, we'd fumble around sending bid invitations to the french (and whoever) until we lost the war..

To bad it isnt the Japanese,they make pretty good engines,
TCMHonda

I had to look it up too!

ob·tuse (b-ts, -tys, b-)
adj. ob·tus·er, ob·tus·est
1.
a. Lacking quickness of perception or intellect.
b. Characterized by a lack of intelligence or sensitivity: an obtuse remark.
c. Not distinctly felt: an obtuse pain.
2.
a. Not sharp, pointed, or acute in form; blunt.
b. Having an obtuse angle: an obtuse triangle.
c. Botany. Having a blunt or rounded tip: an obtuse leaf.

Throttle Pusher wrote:a. Not sharp, pointed, or acute in form; blunt.

Well, I don't want anyone to think I was being insulting. This^^ is how I meant obtuse-- to accept a broad conclusion without insightful analysis.

I have been against the infusion of Chinese machines into the motorcycle world for quite a while now, until I read this

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2010/ ... -colosimo/

Now I am sending a resume to this company. The story is a good short read with some insight into one of the reasons manufacturing goes overseas. This guy was well funded, had prototypes. engineering, could pay for tooling, and all he got from american manufacturers was "we can build motorcycle frames because we'll get sued"
From what I've heard, and seen in researching where in aviation I want to focus my career, it is not much different, only worse.

D.

DavidB. wrote:I have been against the infusion of Chinese machines into the motorcycle world for quite a while now, until I read this

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2010/ ... -colosimo/

Now I am sending a resume to this company. The story is a good short read with some insight into one of the reasons manufacturing goes overseas. This guy was well funded, had prototypes. engineering, could pay for tooling, and all he got from american manufacturers was "we can build motorcycle frames because we'll get sued"
From what I've heard, and seen in researching where in aviation I want to focus my career, it is not much different, only worse.

D.

12K motorcycles of the same model sold in one year? I say good luck to him on that one!

58Skylane wrote:

DavidB. wrote:I have been against the infusion of Chinese machines into the motorcycle world for quite a while now, until I read this

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2010/ ... -colosimo/

Now I am sending a resume to this company. The story is a good short read with some insight into one of the reasons manufacturing goes overseas. This guy was well funded, had prototypes. engineering, could pay for tooling, and all he got from american manufacturers was "we can build motorcycle frames because we'll get sued"
From what I've heard, and seen in researching where in aviation I want to focus my career, it is not much different, only worse.

D.

12K motorcycles of the same model sold in one year? I say good luck to him on that one!

Small cheap and cool is in. His bikes are all around $4000, with a pretty solid warranty.
Ducati, which are big, exotic, and expensive, sold 10,000 motorcycles in the USA in 2008, although that was spread across several models. I don't think they are planning on selling just one model. They are offering 3 this year, all have the same engine and basic running gear, but different styles. I'll shut up now because I don't want to steal this thread and take it off topic.

Airspace is about to open up big time in China in the next few months with few restrictions so the GA market there is going to be enormous. I suspect all the big manufacturers are gearing up to talk with local agents already.

As for their ability, those that doubt it should realise that there are many skilled operators out there. I fly with many Chinese myself and their ability is not in question. As for driving, I've seen many crazy antics driving in the States but it doesn't turn me into a bigot.
CNAC, an airline owned mostly by Pan Am in the '40s employed many who checked out as Captains over the 'Hump'...

It's a shame TCM has been sold but where was the buyer from the States?

Flying Kiwi wrote: ...As for driving, I've seen many crazy antics driving in the States but it doesn't turn me into a bigot.
...It's a shame TCM has been sold but where was the buyer from the States?

Well Said!!
Never been there but from what some have said, TCM's plant and tooling could use some updating.

If you want to see a power play in progress, see what the PRC is doing in Africa, and has been for bout 40 years now.
Ask some Africans, they'll tell you Americans bring Jesus, tourists who only want to see the animals, a bunch of vapid celebs, and and unending strings to any foreign aid.
Chinese bring cellphones, affordable motorcycles, infrastructure-highways, buildings, and jobs. They'll do business with whoever's got the power. They ain't doing it from human kindness. They are interested in raw materials-heavy earths, copper, etc. They are also making friends in a strategically based continent in the coming centuries. These guy's think in the looooong-term....Whatever their other issues, Chinese are certainly not a people noted for stupidity.

Over Here it is too much short term, quarter to quarter, if a guy can't turn some numbers in a year, the market kills him.

Hey, there's an upside to this:

Spare parts at Walmart.

Just an update and some very interesting observations....

In the last 48 hours my website-- www.haaspowerair.com has received a 400% increase in hits from that part of the world. Mostly centered on the capital of China..... I have also gotten 3 inquiries so far from firms looking to talk about my 'unique' aircraft powerplant. Apparently there 'might' be some serious interest in general aviation coming up in the future and they are positioning themselves to capitalize on ground floor oppertunities.

Funny how this world economy works...

Ben.

You better start getting used to rice, fish heads, and dog for dinner.

The USA is going to trade places with China. The USA will look like China from 1950s Why? Politicians, to many are lawyers, and you can't do business in this country without getting sued. (am I in the right thread here) The enviros sue, sue for trees, bugs, fish, plants, birds, air, water, noise. Sue the doctors, sue the pharmaceuticals, sue the auto makers, wrongful death sue, cut a tree in your yard govment fines you, send a note home with a bad kid in the wrong language ACLU sues the school, won't give a teacher all the time she wants off to go on the Hajj she sues the school, airplane crashes lawyers sue everybody connected that has money, get cancer sue your employer.

1 in 20 Americans on SSI disability. Heard a US Senator say that on the radio so must be true. 2 and soon to be 3 years unemployment compensation. Lets just borrow some more money from the Chinese to give to the I won't work for less than $25.00 crowd. Generations of people live on welfare. Government retirements 75-100% of wage while working. DOH! Obama Care

The nit wits from Oregon sent the same waste of good air politicians back to DC. All of them.

Don't even get me started on govment regulations, building department. Build green or don't build. Want to build a house, you will fire sprinkle it.

Oh you want to borrow money for a house you can't afford? Sure just state how much you made last year and no worries we won't check. Banks and investors are the first to get bailed out and we get higher taxes. Congress said I got a tax break, but I sent more money to the govment. OK then.

Rant over. Everything is fine. I'm going to put my head back in the sand now.

I probably shouldn't drink so much coffee

Good day

X2 Rob.
But I also listen to,
Lars Larson
Glenn Beck
Rush Limbaugh
And sometimes Rob Burson

Remember the simpler times of the sixties, when Japanese Honda introduced their motorcycles to the US. 375 bucks could buy a Trail 90. Still got one. It still runs. There was a void in the market at the low priced end that was not competition to US makers because there was nothing made here even close, in price or quality. It opened an entire market that never existed. Harley was out of reach and was high end. They did try to get in on it with AMC but their small bikes were poorly engineered so they went back to what they were good at. The two were not direct competitors. Same thing happened when Mustang skid loaders with Chinese diesels arrived. Dealers for the American made Bobcat thought they would be out of business. Instead the low priced machines brought people to the market for skid loaders that could never afford one before. What happened is when more people came to the market, many people traded up for the Bobcat the second or third time around and Bobcat never sold so many. It ended up being good for them. A friend of mine, Syl Melroe, who named the Bobcat that his uncle invented, told me that. ( For the record now, since the construction contraction began in housing, Bobcat was sold by Ingersol-Rand to Doosan Infracore, a Korean company.)
Maybe, in the long run Chinese involvement at the low price end will open GA to people who are not there now. That is also a possibility.

dirtstrip wrote: Remember the simpler times of the sixties, when Japanese Honda introduced their motorcycles to the US. 375 bucks could buy a Trail 90. Still got one. It still runs. There was a void in the market at the low priced end that was not competition to US makers because there was nothing made here even close, in price or quality. It opened an entire market that never existed. ....

The same thing happened with motorcycles as your example with loaders- a lot of the Harley riders I ran with back in the day started off on dirt bikes when they were kids. Anybody remember Hodaka? They were a small outfit in Oregon selling japanese-built trail bikes. They started out in the mid-60's with a single low-priced model (the Ace 90), which led to a whole slew of snappy-named outshoots: Ace 100, Super Rat, Wombat, Combat Wombat, etc. I got a little ime in on friend's Hodakas- they were a good bike and pretty popular. Don't know why but they disappeared in the late 70's.
Myabe this guy is poised to do the whole thing over again 45 years later.

Some times you need a good kick in the ass to help improve things.
Competition from where ever it might come from can help.
GJ

stol... Apparently there 'might' be some serious interest in general aviation coming up in the future and they are positioning themselves to capitalize on ground floor oppertunities.

As I mentioned it will start to boom very shortly...Looks like Cirrus is going the way of TCM even though they deny it...

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?cont ... 7bcea11bad

nealkas...If you want to see a power play in progress, see what the PRC is doing in Africa, and has been for bout 40 years now.
Ask some Africans, they'll tell you Americans bring Jesus, tourists who only want to see the animals, a bunch of vapid celebs, and and unending strings to any foreign aid.
Chinese bring cellphones, affordable motorcycles, infrastructure-highways, buildings, and jobs. They'll do business with whoever's got the power. They ain't doing it from human kindness. They are interested in raw materials-heavy earths, copper, etc. They are also making friends in a strategically based continent in the coming centuries. These guy's think in the looooong-term....Whatever their other issues, Chinese are certainly not a people noted for stupidity.

That hits the nail on the head...perfect summing up.