probably should have gone around on this one........

That guy must be a navy pilot the way he snagged that wire.

he nearly made minced meat with the beach go-er

Was that a runway at the edge of the beach, or a parking lot? If it was a runway, then the sunbather was in the running for a Darwin award anyway.

Talk about some serious backcountry skills to be able to hit the edge of the runway like that! Never mind the fence . I'm thinking just a little touch of power could've made that a pretty nice landing?

CW

Anybody ever land at Port Allen, Kauai Is. in Hawaii? Same deal. Beach on the threshold. Landing short could take out beach goers and swimmers. Be cautious!

Based on the text, it would appear to be this airport https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=54.185333333,7.915833333&t=h&z=16

http://skyvector.com/airport/EDXH/Helgoland-Dune-Airport

You'd think the sunbather either might be a little more aware of his surroundings or perhaps he thought he was at St. Maarten

yes it is a runway, apparently its on a small island 40Km north of germany. the runway is only 365 meters (only my arse! whoever used that word to describe that runway needs to come on this site!) so short landings are standard procedure. There is apparently lots of signs telling beach goers to keep out of approach paths so the guy on the beach was in the wrong aswell. but all the same, a touch of power and that would have been a greaser!

information above comes from my best mate in germany who translated bits and bobs about the incident for me

I operated an Aztec (PA23-250C) in Port Allen for the Coast Guard. The beach is surprising close on RWY 9. People get woken up real fast when we flew over. Aztecs have straight pipes for exhausts.

The German may have encounter a 'sinker' when he transitioned from flying over the relatively cool water to the heat soaked beach.

MAU MAU wrote:The German may have encounter a 'sinker' when he transitioned from flying over the relatively cool water to the heat soaked beach.

Wouldn't the heated air over the beach be rising?

rw2 wrote:

MAU MAU wrote:The German may have encounter a 'sinker' when he transitioned from flying over the relatively cool water to the heat soaked beach.

Wouldn't the heated air over the beach be rising?

The superheated rising air is less dense therefore affording less lift. (Density Altitude)

It is especially prevalent during the summertime where extra speed must be held in anticipation of the inevitable sinker over the immensely hot black runway. Without that extra speed, I have seen aircraft come down like a rock resulting in a hard landing requiring a maintenance inspection on an airliner.

MAU MAU wrote:

rw2 wrote:

MAU MAU wrote:The German may have encounter a 'sinker' when he transitioned from flying over the relatively cool water to the heat soaked beach.

Wouldn't the heated air over the beach be rising?

The superheated rising air is less dense therefore affording less lift. (Density Altitude)

It is especially prevalent during the summertime where extra speed must be held in anticipation of the inevitable sinker over the immensely hot black runway. Without that extra speed, I have seen aircraft come down like a rock resulting in a hard landing requiring a maintenance inspection on an airliner.

Yellow Flag! 15 yard penalty for B.S.

What part of this are you having trouble understanding?

As an example, under a given weight in your aircraft, will you be airborne sooner on a 40* F day or a 90* F day?

When you are landing over cooler surfaces (such as water) at airports like JFK, LGA, or St Martin in the summertime, you will get sinkers. Period.

And if you do have a hard landing in an airliner, you are required to make a log book entry, and a maintenance inspection is required prior to further flight.

So gliders fly into hot thermals because they want to descend faster??

When I fly over a rocky creek on short finals - in summertime - it's heated by the sun, and I expect extra lift from the thermal and get ready to pull the throttle in anticipation, even though it's only for a moment. The airstrip where I grew up is like that. Yes the air might be less dense, but it's moving upward and that kinetic energy makes more of a difference overall.

I suppose when you're that low - temp / thermals aren't even the biggest factor - ground effect could be the biggest factor.

MAU MAU wrote:What part of this are you having trouble understanding?

As an example, under a given weight in your aircraft, will you be airborne sooner on a 40* F day or a 90* F day?

When you are landing over cooler surfaces (such as water) at airports like JFK, LGA, or St Martin in the summertime, you will get sinkers. Period.

And if you do have a hard landing in an airliner, you are required to make a log book entry, and a maintenance inspection is required prior to further flight.

Yes you do get sinkers flying over the cool water. And lift over hot runways and beaches.
What you said was "The German may have encounter a 'sinker' when he transitioned from flying over the relatively cool water to the heat soaked beach"

I would say the opposite is true. Given no wind.

This is interesting. I'm an open minded guy so I'm trying to reconcile what Mau Mau is saying with my experience and knowledge. I've concluded that he is fundamentally correct.

Thermals are rising columns of lower density air; that reduced density resulting from surface heating. But it's not a perfect "column." Like a lava lamp, the air is more like a bubble that remains adhered to the ground until it's buoyant enough to "release," and then it begins ascending through the cooler air mass.

So every time you fly over a hot parking lot or catch a thermal in your paraglider, it's a hotter, less dense air mass that is rising through a greater, cooler air mass. But the fact that you feel it rising up means it's "released" from the surface.

So what if this warmer, less dense air mass hasn't released from the surface yet? My thinking is that it would behave exactly as Mau Mau describes.

Sinkers in cold air are the inverse: a heavier denser air mass moving downward through a greater, less dense air mass. You feel the sink because the air is on the move.

But all thing being equal, if the air masses are in contact with the surface and there's no movement from buoyancy occurring, what Mau Mau wrote will hold true. Sudden high DA. Hot air only acts lifty when it's on the move, "bubbling" upward.

That said, in the world of light GA aircraft, encountering a stable hot air mass that isn't bubbling upward is the rare condition.

Zzz wrote:That said, in the world of light GA aircraft, encountering a stable hot air mass that isn't bubbling upward is the rare condition.

It makes sense that the situation Mau Mau is describing affects a significantly heavier aircraft like an airliner more, too.

During a Winter frontal passage, a few years ago, there were 45 knot wind shears reported at Molokai airport.

We were at 3000 AGL with a headwind of 40 kts from the East and wind on RWY 5 was 5KTS from the West. The tower advised us not to land. It was scary!

We decide to go to Honolulu ahead of the system. Weather in the middle of the Pacific changes fast sometimes. But, easily predicted.