DeltaRomeo wrote:Phil, Buy a Bad Elf external GPS and that should make it perform better.

https://bad-elf.com/collections/plug-in-gps/products/be-gps-1008

I use this one:

https://bad-elf.com/pages/be-gps-2200-detail

My old iPad (original model) didn’t do well with GPS signals.

I turn this on and throw it on the dash. Battery is good for a long time. Sometimes it’ll go a month without needing a charge, flying 2-5 hours per week.

I was wondering what the heck DOES NOT WORK meant. I use a Garmin Glo and the new 5 would be great with it.

Am very interested in hearing how the Mini 5 screen is compared to the 3 and 4

Thanks for the update!!! I posted a while back questions on getting a new tablet. Sitting around the house today browsing my favorite flying sites and was actually also getting ready to order the new mini or a Samsung. Had gotten the new Sporty's iPad Pilot News a couple of days ago and read every page. Had previously decided on just getting another Android but lately changed my mind in getting the new iPad mini-5 as soon as it was available. So much for that!!

So here is the story (readers digest condensed-sort of).

After loading all the apps on my new iPad mini 5 I took her for a flight. Shortly after I was in the air I noticed there was no "ownship" displayed on the screen of Garmin Pilot, in fact the blue colored location ball wasn't on the screen, it had been sitting on my runway. I switched to Foreflight and the same thing. As I continued to fly from time to time the blue ball would appear or my "ownship" would appear. But they never moved as I flew along unless it was to jump to some entirely different place on the map, nowhere near where I was.

Once I was out of cell service range there was no position information at all. The moment I was back in cell range as I expected the blue location ball appeared, right where I was but again didn't move unless jumping to a completely unrelated part of the screen.

The GPS altitude was never right except when I was on the ground and with cell service.

I've been flying iPad Mini's for ten years now all over the western U.S. and back and forth to Alaska and have not had any problems with the iPad Mini's built in GPS...not until the 5.

After that first flight and back on the ground I noticed that both Garmin Pilot and Foreflight's logging show my complete flight's track, exactly as I had flown it, unbroken and with the correct GPS altitude.

Well the last three days I've been working with Apple trying to debug this. Adjusting settings, reinstalling iOS, reinstalling apps etc. As part of that I drove with Pilot on and it worked fine as did Foreflight (but I didn't drive far enough to get out of cell service). I even flew with just Apple Maps installed and experienced the same behavior.

Oh, and all this time my iPhone X with Pilot and Foreflight both functioned perfectly as they always have.

With nothing else left to do Apple decided to replace it with a new one. I flew over to Anchorage today to exchange it, drug out the Garmin GDL 39 guessing that an external GPS might work, and it did.

After getting the new 5 I took the time to install Pilot and kept the GDL 39 as the GPS source so I could get out of Lake Hood without violating any airspace and as soon as I was headed south I turned the GDL 39 off so the 5 would with back to it's internal GPS and same thing. I was instantly 1,000 feet lower and 10 miles behind me and not moving.

Called Apple as soon as I got home, was escalated, and will be talking to an engineer in the morning. They will remotely enable some logging and see if they can figure out what is going on. The tracking shows the internal GPS is working, but not displaying as soon as I'm flying (which is weird if you think about it). For now I'm back with my 4 which works perfectly.

Stay away from the 5 for now unless you don't care if the internal GPS works, or don't want one with GPS.

As far as the screen differences between the 4 and 5, I haven't noticed a difference, but then I've been a bit distracted,

I'll report back if I learn anything new.

Sounds like a bug rather than a horrible issue. Thanks for being a guinea pig

Sounds like a person might be fine if the use the WiFi only version and bluetooth it to a Stratux. This was my plan. I was thinking if I needed to downlaod anything I would just hotspot with my phone if needed. Flying under Basic Med, I won't be fulfilling the dream of flying to Alaska anytime soon. My flying will be regulated to the lower 48 and the WiFi only should serve me fine.

Phil,

I realize this is a dumb question, knowing you, but the cellular equipped iPad is supposed to have an onboard GPS......right? If so, why is that device relying on cell towers????

MtV

My thoughts exactly

Mike,

Good question. Yes the cell version of all the iPads do have an onboard GPS compass/antenna, ands that's what I've always used.

Toward the beginning of my conversation with escalated tech support she said "you have to have a cell signal for GPS to work" and I said "no you don't, I've been using iPads for ten years with Foreflight for navigation and never needed a cell connection for them to work". Her response was "oh, yours is the Mini, I thought we were talking about the pro".

We never talked further about what she'd said but it did get me wondering if indeed a Pro required a cell network for the GPS to work. I do have a Pro but it's WiFi only as there is no way I'd use that beast in an airplane. I will bring it up with the engineer when I talk with him/her just so I have a better understanding.

But remember the weirdness is that the on-board GPS does work all the time, that's evident because Foreflight/Garmin Logbook tracking shows the complete flight path, even where there was no cell service- it just never shows the active location and tracking realtime on the nav screen- be it Apple Maps, Foreflight or Garmin Pilot.

Biggest question for me is whether this is a software glitch or a hardware glitch. To that I have no idea. Hoping it is software and hoping the engineers can figure it out.

In response to WWhunter's statement, yes I think if you are planning using the WiFi only version and an external GPS I think that would be fine, even my GPS enabled one worked fine when I switched to the GDL 39 as the GPS source. I just don't want to use an external source and shouldn't need to if history is the judge.

Anyway I'll keep you folks in the loop as I learn things.

All I can say is Wow! That's not just a glitch.....that truly sucks. Wouldn't be fun at all if you'd bought the thing just prior to a trip and were planning to use it on the trip.

I agree that it is totally weird that the thing is actually tracking, but doesn't show in the air......I wonder if there's some sort of speed associated limit....

Anyway, thanks for being "The Guy", and keep us posted. I'm REALLY glad I didn't buy one yet.

MTV

It kind of makes sense that it would break in that way because the GPS is part of the cellular chip, which is why you need to buy the cell version to get the GPS.

There are a lot of reasons why you would want the GPS work even without cell service (hiking, car nav, boat nav, etc) so I suspect if this can be escalated to the right engineer, it will get fixed.

In the mean time, the external GPS's seem to work much better, and most people are using some sort of ADS-b in solution (which includes GPS) with the ipad, so I don't think it's a huge deal.

I have never had accurate or consistent GPS information with iPads or iPhones, several different versions. When I bought my mini 4 I decided to just get the wifi only version with XGPS for $85. Best decision I've made. The GPS connects very fast and it rock solid. Never have any reception issues anymore.

Personally, I'd never rely on the internal GPS, but that's just my opinion. For $85 you're saving the cost of the cellular version, monthlys and the headaches.

Two cents.

XGPS150A:
https://www.amazon.com/Dual-Electronics ... 006M49G80/

Or the XGPS160 (allows connection to 5 devices):
https://www.amazon.com/Dual-Electronics ... 00E65TNYE/

hamer wrote:When I bought my mini 4 I decided to just get the wifi only version

Yup, same here. I ditched the cellular version a long time ago and never looked back. The GPS worked for me, but the device costs a little more and doesn't get ADS-B data. So for me Stratus + Wifi/only was a no brainer.

I've been using the iPad Mini 4 since they came out in the airplane, with no external GPS, and have never had any indication that the position accuracy is off. Same for my iPhone. Both match nicely with my Garmin 660, in fact, and yes, I've checked.

An external GPS is just one more thing floating around the cockpit (yes, I know you can secure it, sorta) and one more thing that either has to be connected to ship's power or charged frequently. Why would you want to do that?

MTV

WiFi only iPad mini 4 user here.
I use it with a GDL 39 3D hardwired and attached to my gareshield. Works great!
Bluetooth connects every time.

I’m on the fence with upgrading to the mini 5. Is the expense worth the processor upgrade, and is the screen any different? If I do, I’ll get another WiFi only model.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

mtv wrote:I've been using the iPad Mini 4 since they came out in the airplane, with no external GPS, and have never had any indication that the position accuracy is off. Same for my iPhone. Both match nicely with my Garmin 660, in fact, and yes, I've checked.

An external GPS is just one more thing floating around the cockpit (yes, I know you can secure it, sorta) and one more thing that either has to be connected to ship's power or charged frequently. Why would you want to do that?

MTV

Hang on here guys.
The Garmin 660 IS or can be your external GPS if you connect to it with your iPad via Bluetooth. I was sure this was true but just got off the phone with Garmin support to make sure I was being factual here. So, Mike, you don't have to have more than what you have. I'd be a bit surprised if that isn't the way you have been using it already. Once you connect you can go into the 660 Bluetooth set up page and have it connect automatically every time you turn then both on. You can see the connection in Garmin Pilot if you go to settings you will see a green bar next to your 660 in the equipment list on the left. I'm sure that Foreflight uses it as well but right now I can't find how to prove it. I am having trouble understanding why one would prefer to use the internal iPad or iPhone GPS. It has never been nearly as good as a real aviation GPS. Certainly OK to use in the car but really not for airplane navigation, though I'm sure gets you pretty close. It is not WAAS enabled your 660 is.

The much better set up, however, is to use a GDL50 series along with the iPad. Yes, the 39 works as well but the 50 series according to Garmin is considerably more technically advanced, and has a more advanced AHARS chipset and also does the ADSB in very well too. I am using Aera 660, GDL50R, and now the new iPad Mini 5 which I think is an extremely good combination. AHRS is very good on Garmin Pilot and ForeFlight, ADSB in is very good on both the 660 and ForeFlight and Garmin Pilot. The new Mini 5 is a very significant improvement over the Mini 4. It updates the charts very quickly no perceptible lag at all. The screen is brighter and very easy to see detail thanks to its new Retina display with True Tone and A12 Bionic chip. I have the 660 in the Airgizmos panel mount, the GDL 50 mounted behind/under the panel secured to the panel brace structure back near the firewall. Nothing floating around the cockpit most of the time except in more extreme turbulence.

I had just ordered the new mini with wifi/cellular when this thread started so was a little concerned
when hearing about all the problems. Mine arrived on Friday from China and I set
it up and flew with it on Sunday. No problems. Worked as good or better than the
old mini 4 it was replacing. Just flew again today and did a little more testing. Turned off
the bluetooth on the mini as well as the GDL39 off, cellular connection off, and wifi off in order
to force it to use the internal GPS. Again worked flawlessly on Garmin Pilot. Stayed almost as
accurate as my 796 and that was flying rather low in some mountainous area and certainly no cellular signal.
My IPhone X duplicated the mini with cellular, bluetooth, and wifi off also. The display is
much brighter and the new chip is definitely faster. Hope you find out what the problem is.



















so

I might have found the problem. Seems to work fine on the road now, I'll take it flying in a bit and report back. Stand by.

Wow! You guys are awesome!! The info on this thread is a lifesaver for me. I'm probably one of the least knowledgeable people on this site in regards to anything to do with computers/tablets/smartphones! The continual conversation about issues is a major help for me.

As an FYI, anyone that is military/retired veteran can get an online discount ordering directly from Apple.