aktahoe1 wrote:Thanks Aqua...sounds like the way to go to me as well. O550 and the MT 3 blade prop

Now that I have spoke with the feds, I guess I can share my humility....

I, as many of us do, was practicing my tail up taxi procedures. Taxied around for awhile making turns,driving around circles etc.,at various speeds. Doing this slow is much harder than with a bit of speed. Personally when your going to need this manuever in the field your not going to do it with speed, you will be stopped or very slow most likely. Long story short, up and over she went with a gust of wind. I practice this technique all the time and do believe its a very good technique to know how to perform. Far to often we land and need to turn around. Often times the ground is so rough that you need to get your tail off the ground to turn around or you will beat your plane up. Anyway...

If you can image your plane acting as a flag pole, all I was missing is the flag. So now, I am waiting to see what happens with the insurance folks as I am covered. Ofcourse I can only imagine now what will come of this.

Don't sweat it all Kevin, we live and learn. I for one would love to see your engine and prop swap and rebuild story here.. Good luck with your decision and keep us posted-

Ugh Kevin! Sorry to hear that!

Can't wait to see what you end up with - I'm getting into that amount of time on my O470 where I'm starting to think about options too.

Hope ya get things settled with the insurance and back in the air soon!

Flynengr

A couple thoughts....
At this point, unless your exhaust is shelled out, it would be pointless to replace it. Why they went to a single exhaust and later cowl on your plane is beyond me, but you may as well stick with that and just replace what cowl pieces you need.

Going to an O-550 will require some baffle work. If you want a simple 'plug and play ' solution to this and would rather not waste time trying to figure out how much to cut, trim and add, call Alaska airforms on Big Lake. They are experienced in all the combinations you can put into cubs and 180's and will make it look professional ;
http://www.enginebaffles.com/catalog/index.php

Is your motor mount a late style one with the engine resting on lord mounts, or an early one with the 'through bolt' style? If it needs work, right now is the time to upgrade at essentially no extra cost...

Kevin, sorry to hear about your plane, but it's not all bad, now you have a "reason" to upgrade. I may have a prop for you.

I just decided to do the same. Due to 11 years of calendar time and one of the three blades making a weird sound when I knocked on it during preflight, I decided it was overhaul time for my 80" mac 402. I don't know if it's compatible your plane or engine, but if it is and you are interested my freshly overhauled Mac 402 will be for sale in a few days. Let me know if you want it it's a good performer.

I was itching for an upgrade to an MT and also wanted heated prop for inadvertent icing. I just pulled the trigger on a 3 blade heated MT. (the Mac I will be selling is unheated)

I have decided on a brand new O-550 from TX Skyways and the 88 inch 3 blade MAC (may go 2 blade Mac but still staying with the 88") . I have heard numerous reports about folks not liking them or having something to say about Jack down there but they seem to be on it and honest so far.

TX skyways really likes the 3 blade-82" Hartzel prop. They also claim is has 300lbs more thrust....Anyone disagree with that? The big Mac props in my opinion are the way to go. That also coincides with what many of the 135 guys around the country are utilizing. Same set up.

I am aware of the added weight etc., but really we are only talking 8lbs heavier than my old O 470K. I had the 88" 2 blade already.

Additionally, I am adding the WingX to the plane giving her an additional 400lbs of useful load. Not to mention the Sportsman STOL kit and removing my Horton.

All and all I am feeling pretty good about this. Seems like the plane will be down for about 8-10 weeks.

Going with the Leading Edge exhaust system and Sea planes west engine mount as well.

Anyone have any comments on this thought? Feeling pretty good about it so far. Curious if I am missing something here??

Kevin

WOW... You are going to have a monster when you're finished! Looking forward to seeing you back in the air soon! Be sure to ask Willie about the new tips they have when you order your Sportsman STOL kit... You get a few more sqft of wing area.

Sounds like a winner. Are you going to have Dane build you the dual exhaust or the single?
O-550 weight gain over a O-520 should be almost nil, but the stroked motor will be a brute.
Seaplane west mount is strong because it's heavy.... But the sky wagon guys love them... They also love auto pilots and glass panels

8-10#s on the engine, 35#s on the prop, 15 #s on a Sportsman, 5#s on the exhaust, 5#s on the mount... All adding to the already heavy nose....You get the idea....
Be careful, or you will have a mini, gross limited 185, that used to fly like a dream...

aktahoe1 wrote:

Zane wrote:Brother man, I feel like you're Mikey from the Life cereal ads that were on TV when we were kids...

Not certain how to take that Zane but it sure made me laugh....

Just meant that you're getting after it, trying stuff. Learned the lessons the hard way, but .00001% of pilots have the ability to taxi with the tail up, and you're one of them.

88" 2 blade Mac = 55lbs
88" 3 blade Mac -65lbs = 10lbs greater

O470 = 412lbs
0550 = 418lbs = 6lbs greater
IO550= 458lbs = 46lbs greater (not an option for me)

Engine mount = wash to what I have now
Exhaust system now = wash to what I have now

Looking at 16-18lbs more on the nose than what I have now. Remember, WINGX also going on to add 400lbs to overall gross

Yes a bit more nose heavy but we are talking 20lbs at best. Thats not much.

What am I missing?

Dude, that blows! Sounds like you'll miss JC too?

But...your plane sounds like it will rock when you are done.

Maybe you'll have plenty of time to put together all that video you guys shot last year

Sorry if that last post sounded wrong... Your airplane will undoubtedly be a snorter, and it WILL perform. Gary Greenes is set up pretty similar if I am not mistaken, and I have seen it in places few cub guys would go... the one exception is that his is paintless, essentially radioless, interiorless...etc...

Weight is what it is, and there are no free lunches. I read all the stats, but don't care for he-said, she-said BS, so I weigh my airplane, or what's going on it everytime.... Weighed it prior to and after painting, prior to and after engine/prop overhaul etc...

My C-66 & spinner weighs 54, but it is shorter than yours, so we are on the same track,
My neighbors 86" 401 & spinner weighs 72...

An IO would be outta the cards for me too weight & complexity would make buying a 185 a better option.

I was wrong about the engine mount, it should actually be 15#s heavier... you just don't get the bigger C-210 biscuits, and bigger & more tubes for free

Danes exhaust is kick ass... Good luck getting your hands on one before your engine and prop are on

Wing X rocks... But it won't fit in my hangar I will have to be jealous

Does the Horton come off? or Will the Sportsman go right over the top? I am really curious what people do on that one, leave holes or add weight?

Your plane is going to rock...period... my point wasn't to cut it short, hope you didn't take it that way... my point is there are already plenty of 300hp 185's on the market, and they all have a better GW, the single redeeming quality of the early 'wagons is the lightness...

Take care, Rob

emflys wrote:Dude, that blows! Sounds like you'll miss JC too?

But...your plane sounds like it will rock when you are done.

Maybe you'll have plenty of time to put together all that video you guys shot last year

No JC unless I can get Lowrider to bring up his new 206 with a jump door and we can then jump into all the fun places we land...

Even thinking about getting a T cart like pops for real cheap. Plane will be done in 8-10 weeks!

Rob wrote:Sorry if that last post sounded wrong... Your airplane will undoubtedly be a snorter, and it WILL perform. Gary Greenes is set up pretty similar if I am not mistaken, and I have seen it in places few cub guys would go... the one exception is that his is paintless, essentially radioless, interiorless...etc...

Weight is what it is, and there are no free lunches. I read all the stats, but don't care for he-said, she-said BS, so I weigh my airplane, or what's going on it everytime.... Weighed it prior to and after painting, prior to and after engine/prop overhaul etc...

My C-66 & spinner weighs 54, but it is shorter than yours, so we are on the same track,
My neighbors 86" 401 & spinner weighs 72...

An IO would be outta the cards for me too weight & complexity would make buying a 185 a better option.

I was wrong about the engine mount, it should actually be 15#s heavier... you just don't get the bigger C-210 biscuits, and bigger & more tubes for free

Danes exhaust is kick ass... Good luck getting your hands on one before your engine and prop are on

Wing X rocks... But it won't fit in my hangar I will have to be jealous

Does the Horton come off? or Will the Sportsman go right over the top? I am really curious what people do on that one, leave holes or add weight?

Your plane is going to rock...period... my point wasn't to cut it short, hope you didn't take it that way... my point is there are already plenty of 300hp 185's on the market, and they all have a better GW, the single redeeming quality of the early 'wagons is the lightness...

Take care, Rob

Thanks Rob-

Lots of thought going into this one for certain.

The Sportsman will go over the top or they can remove it. Researching now... Would like to remove it. Holes are OK

Seems like the engine mount is one of my biggest hurdles....Seaplanes West mount won't work. May end up with a stock one but....Skyways also has one...Researching again...

Seems like the exhaust from Leading edge may be the way to go but will see. Most are telling me my current exhaust will be fine but I like the idea of changing to a dual system...I don't know...will see

aktahoe1 wrote:we can then jump into all the fun places we land...

I'd buy a commercial ticket to come up for that!

Kevin that is going to be a fine 180 when you're finished. Is the MT prop STC'd for this setup. A Friend has a '56 182 with an O550, Sportsman and extensions. Completely updated panel (no glass). Here's a video of us flying (heavy) out of the 500' 22% grade, air strip at his ranch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMoAfylX ... ata_player

Kevin, call and talk to Willie at Stene Aviation. He should know about what to do when replacing a horton with a sportsman. I'm pretty sure they take the old kit off, the holes will be covered by the new leading edge. Also maybe motoadve will chime in... He replaced his horton with a sportsman on his 182.

Sounds like a monster set up, can't wait to see it.

Talk to Stene, they can provide documentation from FAA engineers that support mixing STOL systems, meaning once they swap the cuff you can retain parts of the Horton if you desire - does Horton have stall fences?

What'd you come up with on the MT prop option? What drive the decision between the Mac and MT?

I'll keep my fingers crossed for your 8-10 weeks. In my case the initial estimate was 2-3 months, ended up taking closer to 6!

MT prop would be a mistake according to every person (honestly) I know, that has went that route.

To many issues, delamitation, parts failures, ...... $$$
Tried and true McCauley is hard to beat. Three blade, of course!
Yes, it's heavier, but it will give you no grief...

Carburated, McCauley is the way to go if you're going to be in the back country.

Wing extensions, along with the Sportsman Stol is the way to go.
You will need to remove the Horton to do the Sportsman and extensions, but it's the way to go, along with the O-520 Conversion.
You can use your engine..... and don't have to add all the fuel injection crap...
Fuel Injection in the backcountry is a pain in the ass!

Way cheaper (and easier) than the IO-550 conversion,(even) if it's possible on your piece.

Of course, this is my opinion!
The only thing I crave, is an 84" to 86" replacement to my 80" factory 401 prop.
Seems to me that there are a lot of engines out there needing the right (correct) prop!

Flame on!

With regards to the Sportsman or other mod's any of you have questions on we are planning on making the BCP flyin at Johnson Creek. Otherwise just give us a buzz...

Willie Stene

Willie:

Thinking of the Sportsman / Wing X combo too on my 180. But one question. Have a good friend here in NM that believes that the Sportsman part of that combo doesn't bring much to the party. He believes that Wing X produces most of the reduced approach speed and decreased takeoff roll and that adding the Sportsman is not worth the additional dollars?

Any thoughts on that?

Regards, Larry