^^^^^^Been there, done that, many times.....
The principle REALLY applies there, too!

Once I drove a '56 VW bus (36 hp?) west to SoCal from SAT. 55mph. Agony.
lc

(long enough ago to be almost be considered 'in another lifetime'....)

Littlecub wrote:Something to keep in mind with older LSAs relating to early winter sunsets....
A daytime current PILOT can fly till one half hour after sunset.
A PLANE not night time capable (exterior lights) must be on the ground AT sun set.

I learned the difference after many years/flights of thinking I was legal in my Cub with no exterior lights til a half hour after sunset. I learned the difference at a safety seminar (fortunately).

The rule makes sense, and I observe it carefully now...

Well, that actually isn't the rule. The "rule" actually says that a pilot who is not night current can fly until ending civil twilight or one hour after sunset, while carrying passengers. Here is the definition of "Night", per FAR 1:

Night means the time between the end of evening civil twilight and the beginning of morning civil twilight, as published in the Air Almanac, converted to local time.

Here's the requirement for Night Currency from FAR 61.57:

(b) Night takeoff and landing experience. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft carrying passengers during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise, unless within the preceding 90 days that person has made at least three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise, and—

(i) That person acted as sole manipulator of the flight controls; and

(ii) The required takeoffs and landings were performed in an aircraft of the same category, class, and type (if a type rating is required).

Here's the section of FAR 61.315 that specifies restrictions on sport pilots:

(c) You may not act as pilot in command of a light-sport aircraft:

(1) That is carrying a passenger or property for compensation or hire.

(2) For compensation or hire.

(3) In furtherance of a business.

(4) While carrying more than one passenger.

(5) At night.


The point is, a PRIVATE PILOT, flying an appropriately equipped LSA airplane, can fly at night IF they are night current (assuming they are carrying a passenger) or if not carrying a passenger, they need not be night current to operate beyond one hour after sunset, or after ending civil twilight. Again, that's assuming the LSA airplane is properly equipped with lighting and is approved for night flight.

A sport pilot, or a private pilot OPERATING UNDER SPORT PILOT PRIVILEGES (as in without a current medical in an LSA qualified aircraft) MAY NOT operate an aircraft beyond ending civil twilight OR one hour beyond sunset, whichever occurs first.

MTV

OscarDeuce wrote: When the last TSA thug is jailed or back to flipping burgers, and the last surly airline employee fired, I'll consider setting foot on the big Greyhound in the sky again. Until then, I don't think I'm subservient enough for the airlines to be an option. ......

I flew Seattle-Orange County & back again on Alaska last spring, and didn't find it particularly onerous. Didn't get groped, strip-searched, or assume-the-position'd once. While not the adventure that flying my own airplane or an I-5 road trip would have been, it was a lot quicker & cheaper to boot.

Well, that actually isn't the rule. The "rule" actually says.....

Ok, my statement was a rough approximation. My point was that if the aircraft does not have appropriate night lighting (fairly common on older small aircraft) on the exterior of the aircraft, you must be down if the sun is down.....
Anyhow that was made to be a big point-one of many-in this seminar.

Is at least THAT point right?
lc

I believe with his list of ratings he is not flying as a sport pilot-unless his medical is not current....

Littlecub wrote:

Well, that actually isn't the rule. The "rule" actually says.....

Ok, my statement was a rough approximation. My point was that if the aircraft does not have appropriate night lighting (fairly common on older small aircraft) on the exterior of the aircraft, you must be down if the sun is down.....
Anyhow that was made to be a big point-one of many-in this seminar.

Is at least THAT point right?
lc

I believe with his list of ratings he is not flying as a sport pilot-unless his medical is not current....

LC,

Medical is not current. Don't know if I'll ever get one again. Watching to see with the FAA does regarding the third class.

Best,
O-2

hotrod150 wrote:

OscarDeuce wrote: When the last TSA thug is jailed or back to flipping burgers, and the last surly airline employee fired, I'll consider setting foot on the big Greyhound in the sky again. Until then, I don't think I'm subservient enough for the airlines to be an option. ......

I flew Seattle-Orange County & back again on Alaska last spring, and didn't find it particularly onerous. Didn't get groped, strip-searched, or assume-the-position'd once. While not the adventure that flying my own airplane or an I-5 road trip would have been, it was a lot quicker & cheaper to boot.

Hotrod:

I'd most likely have to fly out of Dulles. Hell, I was just there to pick up someone the other night and got screamed at and cursed out by some f**khead traffic cop in from of the terminal. I think I'll vote with my wallet.

Best,
O-2

Medical is not current. Don't know if I'll ever get one again. Watching to see with the FAA does regarding the third class.

Sorry!
I kept mine by a whisker, and they will review/monitor it more often than standard.
You sure don't want to have it pulled or fail it!
Hopefully they will let you keep/get your medical back-maybe with extra 'attention' from the Docs-like me.
Again, sorry! It is a hassle dealing with it all, and stressful worrying about your continued option of flying.

lc

LC:

I should probably clarify - I could probably pass the third class. It's the "probably" that keeps me from trying. I have something of an irregular heartbeat. Probably had it all my life but didn't know until I reached the age that I needed the get an EKG as a routine part of my medical. I've actually passed and renewed it a few times since then. However, given the current proposal, I'd just as soon wait and see that the FAA does before I chance it again. You never know when the FAA will tighten up the allowable tolerance. While I don't like the current proposal (it doesn't go far enough), I can live with it. So, it's LSA for me until then.

Best,
O-2

Since I was going to allocate three days to driving, I'll do the same with flying.

If you can't allocate at least five days to get there, I think you shouldn't tempt yourself with the trip. The days are cold, short and ceilings can stay low until late in the morning - that can be the good weather. The 30 knot head winds don't help either.

The ground is pretty high north of Albuquerque and following 10 rather than 40 east seems much more reasonable to me. You really don't want to be in the mountains in a light plane when there is wind; 20 knots 2000 feet AGL may be safe enough but can still be very obnoxious.

Renting a car to finish the trip may have issues. You could wind up in a place that doesn't do one way rentals. Hopefully there is a bus that goes through in a day that will take you to a place to do a one way rental or there is a taxi of some flavor that will hold up long enough.

So I would asume you'll be flying the I-40 route? Be smart, that way if you do run into Wx you can land at a airport close to 40, get a car and hammer down to Vegas on 40 then north out of Kingman on Hwy 93.

But serious, if this is a must be there meeting and the Wx is looking like crap the days before during your planned trip, airline just might be the best way. Trust me, I hate going through some TSA check points. Small airports like Boise is great. But places like LAX down right suck most of the time!!

I'll tell you an LAX TSA moment later (I gotta get to work). I'll edit this later.

OscarDeuce wrote:LC:

I should probably clarify - I could probably pass the third class. It's the "probably" that keeps me from trying. I have something of an irregular heartbeat. Probably had it all my life but didn't know until I reached the age that I needed the get an EKG as a routine part of my medical. I've actually passed and renewed it a few times since then. However, given the current proposal, I'd just as soon wait and see that the FAA does before I chance it again. You never know when the FAA will tighten up the allowable tolerance. While I don't like the current proposal (it doesn't go far enough), I can live with it. So, it's LSA for me until then.

Best,
O-2

Not a bad idea if you don't need one. Try and fail and you're out of the cockpit. At least without failing you can still go sport pilot. I haven't faced it yet, I think that is what the rule says.

58Skylane wrote:So I would asume you'll be flying the I-40 route? Be smart, that way if you do run into Wx you can land at a airport close to 40, get a car and hammer down to Vegas on 40 then north out of Kingman on Hwy 93.

But serious, if this is a must be there meeting and the Wx is looking like crap the days before during your planned trip, airline just might be the best way. Trust me, I hate going through some TSA check points. Small airports like Boise is great. But places like LAX down right suck most of the time!!

I'll tell you an LAX TSA moment later (I gotta get to work). I'll edit this later.

Skylane:

I have thought about driving to someplace where I can take a regional airline to a connecting flight. Might avoid the worst of the TSA that way, but still have to deal with them at Vegas on the way back.

Best,
O-2

The most obnoxious TSA people I ever encountered were at Jackson, Mississippi. I don't remember the reason but those at Portland Maine I remember as unfriendly. Palm Springs though must be OK because I have no memorable experiences there.

The larger airports, San Francisco and Philadelphia that I have been at, seem to have too many people to process to have the TSA indulge in theatrics. I haven't flow commercial to Las Vegas more than a few times since 9/11 but I don't remember anything unpleasant. Flying first class also helps you forget the unpleasantness of the wait and the searches and is still cheaper for me than flying days by myself.

OscarDeuce wrote:

58Skylane wrote:So I would asume you'll be flying the I-40 route? Be smart, that way if you do run into Wx you can land at a airport close to 40, get a car and hammer down to Vegas on 40 then north out of Kingman on Hwy 93.

But serious, if this is a must be there meeting and the Wx is looking like crap the days before during your planned trip, airline just might be the best way. Trust me, I hate going through some TSA check points. Small airports like Boise is great. But places like LAX down right suck most of the time!!

I'll tell you an LAX TSA moment later (I gotta get to work). I'll edit this later.

Skylane:

I have thought about driving to someplace where I can take a regional airline to a connecting flight. Might avoid the worst of the TSA that way, but still have to deal with them at Vegas on the way back.

Best,
O-2

I know. Food for thought though. St. George, Utah is just about an hour and a half north of Vegas. Small airport with maybe friendlier TSA. I believe Kingman, AZ has very limited airline service, too.

O-2; This is about the most succinct catalog of cautions I've read about the wait and see attitude. Thanks for speaking my mind. As to your trip, I just don't think you are allowing yourself enough time. As for me, with my skill set, in an LSA, I wouldn't take a trip like this if I had ANY deadlines at all. I would sure do it with an open schedule, it would be a trip you'll long remember. You may very well loose a whole day or more in one leg, flying VFR anyway. If the airplane is equipped you could file IFR and make it easy. Maybe. ATC doesn't know what rule you're flying under do they?

EB

OscarDeuce wrote:LC:

I should probably clarify - I could probably pass the third class. It's the "probably" that keeps me from trying. I have something of an irregular heartbeat. Probably had it all my life but didn't know until I reached the age that I needed the get an EKG as a routine part of my medical. I've actually passed and renewed it a few times since then. However, given the current proposal, I'd just as soon wait and see that the FAA does before I chance it again. You never know when the FAA will tighten up the allowable tolerance. While I don't like the current proposal (it doesn't go far enough), I can live with it. So, it's LSA for me until then.

Best,
O-2

Emory Bored wrote:O-2; This is about the most succinct catalog of cautions I've read about the wait and see attitude. Thanks for speaking my mind. As to your trip, I just don't think you are allowing yourself enough time. As for me, with my skill set, in an LSA, I wouldn't take a trip like this if I had ANY deadlines at all. I would sure do it with an open schedule, it would be a trip you'll long remember. You may very well loose a whole day or more in one leg, flying VFR anyway. If the airplane is equipped you could file IFR and make it easy. Maybe. ATC doesn't know what rule you're flying under do they?

EB

EB,

The airplane itself is very well equipped although not IFR certified. I could see how "someone" would not have any qualms about flying enroute IFR, assuming they were current. However, the aircraft type would perhaps raise eyebrows on an IFR flight plan.

Best,
O-2

Well, the curious side of me checked out some flights for the week of Jan 24-28 (not sure exactly your travel plans).

Checking Orbitz:
Wash. Dulles to Kingman, AZ would be about $700-$800 round trip.

To St. George, UT is about $600-$700 round trip.

It's about a 2 hr drive to Vegas from either one of those towns. Both are easy and scenic drives, too.

On Orbitz for the same week round trip to Vegas is about $400-$600.

I'd still take the time and plan to fly your own plane. Just leave a day or two early if you can.

Nobody cares if you fly LSA IFR. N28GX is flown IFR from time to time. Note it's differeent from flying IMC in it. It's great for penetrating that marine layer or other "soft" IMC that really is nothing much.

Another thing: some LSAs such as Tecnam Sierra are fully certified for IFR in Europe. In case of Sierra this is accomplished by using a standby alternator and redundant batteries and separate electrical buses. As a result, the useful load on it is not spectacular. But it's a real airplane, just small.