To me it appears you have added a critical data point into your mental memory bank. You had scores of data points centered around the 170 at 300 lbs lighter and larger planing surfaces of the larger tires, now you have a data point on the edge of the envelope for this plane and tire combination. Good job.

That photo would be framed on my wall... Thanks for sharing.

GravityKnight wrote:looks like you reacted quickly as soon as it started dragging you in!

Once the water actually "grabs you" properly, there's not enough time to react and not enough control to keep the plane upright. Trust me... Either you make the beach, or you make an insurance claim. See the video of the Maule sinking in depsite the pilot applying full power. I am sure the more skilled guys can play "on the edge" of this knife, but most probably cannot...

Generally on this video:

A good example of how quickly things go wrong when water is involved. "Best way to ruin a good airplane".

I would say this - if the beach was 10 foot further away, you wouldn't be seeing this video because there'd be an insurance claim in progress.

I would also say, I don't believe the heavier aircraft are worth hydroplaning for any practical purpose except having fun at higher speeds.

Battson wrote: I would also say, I don't believe the heavier aircraft are worth hydroplaning for any practical purpose except having fun at higher speeds.

Touching the tires to water before gravel will help reduce rock damage to the tail. Most rocks thrown at the tail are on the initial touch of the tires.

Good video Rob. I have a similar one that was a good learning experience. Now you know how far you can push it without wrecking. Of course you don't want to push it that far most of the time but it is good to know where the edge is.

Battson wrote:

GravityKnight wrote:looks like you reacted quickly as soon as it started dragging you in!

Once the water actually "grabs you" properly, there's not enough time to react and not enough control to keep the plane upright. Trust me... Either you make the beach, or you make an insurance claim. See the video of the Maule sinking in depsite the pilot applying full power. I am sure the more skilled guys can play "on the edge" of this knife, but most probably cannot...

Generally on this video:

A good example of how quickly things go wrong when water is involved. "Best way to ruin a good airplane".

I would say this - if the beach was 10 foot further away, you wouldn't be seeing this video because there'd be an insurance claim in progress.

I would also say, I don't believe the heavier aircraft are worth hydroplaning for any practical purpose except having fun at higher speeds.

I'm confused. Are you saying that robw56 quickly applying power and elevator as soon as the water started getting a grip on him didn't help the situation at all? I figured it did help him a little to reach the shore. I'm not an expert at landing in water by any means...

I am a wretched 180/185 has been. Probably too much time in Cessna 180s and 185s. I got cocky and paid. So, I would ask, if I had such a gorgeous early model 180 with a float kit WHY IN THE HELL WOULD I RISK SUCH A MANEUVER? Is there gold on that sandbar? A woman expert on the art of making her man smile for a month? Large steelhead dumber than a bag of rocks? Free 1957 Chebbies? A years subscription to BathHousesRus?
I am removed from flying now for several years, but I read this stuff and scratch my head while still looking at the royal quality of the talented rebuilds on this site.

North River wrote:Touching the tires to water before gravel will help reduce rock damage to the tail. Most rocks thrown at the tail are on the initial touch of the tires.

Not to be contrary, but touching the shallow water on the edge of a rocky bar can actually *increase* the chance of damage to the tail.
The rocks in shallow water seem to fly up a lot more readily than those on dry land. I guess it's something to do with their boyancy making them lighter, or the splashing water dragging the rocks along with it, or something else - I haven't studied why it happens. But it happens.

exVXclimber wrote: WHY IN THE HELL WOULD I RISK SUCH A MANEUVER?

I guess if I wrecked at an easy strip like Wilson Bar I'd feel the same way.

GravityKnight wrote:

Battson wrote:

GravityKnight wrote:looks like you reacted quickly as soon as it started dragging you in!

Once the water actually "grabs you" properly, there's not enough time to react and not enough control to keep the plane upright. Trust me... Either you make the beach, or you make an insurance claim. See the video of the Maule sinking in depsite the pilot applying full power. I am sure the more skilled guys can play "on the edge" of this knife, but most probably cannot...

Generally on this video:

A good example of how quickly things go wrong when water is involved. "Best way to ruin a good airplane".

I would say this - if the beach was 10 foot further away, you wouldn't be seeing this video because there'd be an insurance claim in progress.

I would also say, I don't believe the heavier aircraft are worth hydroplaning for any practical purpose except having fun at higher speeds.

I'm confused. Are you saying that robw56 quickly applying power and elevator as soon as the water started getting a grip on him didn't help the situation at all? I figured it did help him a little to reach the shore. I'm not an expert at landing in water by any means...

Oh no, sorry - I didn't mean to infer that it doesn't help *at all*. It does make a difference, but if you don't know how to recognise the onset of penetration, then your reaction could be too little, too late. You need plenty of experience to know when to add power, before you are too far gone. I'll explain a bit more:

Once penetration becomes obvious, like in the video, you can't react as fast as the water does. The engine spools up too slow, espcially on these big planes. There is not time to fully recover and pull the plane clear, you're stuck on the water - either you reach the beach, or you come to a stop in the water. The plane is too far behind the drag curve to overpower the induced drag and the drag from the water. Your only hope is adding power well before the water "grabs you" and starts dragging you down, or being in very shallow water / close to the beach. Adding full power + full up elevator once it's too late *will* delay the onset of a crash, by a second or two maybe, but it won't save you unless you're right upon the beach.

Knowing when to add power only comes from experience, experience that is very risky to get... We are lucky Rob wanted to share his close-call video. You don't get to see the videos of the poor saps who make this mistake in deeper water, further from the beach. Trust me, those videos are out there, they just don't end up on YouTube...

Mountain Doctor wrote:From what I see that looks well executed and I would have though it went as planned if I was an observer.

My question is is there a concern of water ingestion in the intake system? Hydrolocking the engine?

EZ Flap is working on an STC for a snorkel

Tim

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robw56 wrote:

exVXclimber wrote: WHY IN THE HELL WOULD I RISK SUCH A MANEUVER?

I guess if I wrecked at an easy strip like Wilson Bar I'd feel the same way.

There is an expression I like to keep in mind:

"You will not remember all the places you have landed, but you WILL remember all the places you have crashed."

robw56 wrote:I guess if I wrecked at an easy strip like Wilson Bar I'd feel the same way.

Wilson Bar is an easy strip?

Short-ish
Blind approach
Intimidating bluff on short final
Constrained in a valley

The Fly Idaho book gives it a 27, of which 17 (out of 20) is for the approach.

rw2 wrote:

robw56 wrote:I guess if I wrecked at an easy strip like Wilson Bar I'd feel the same way.

Wilson Bar is an easy strip?

Short-ish
Blind approach
Intimidating bluff on short final
Constrained in a valley

The Fly Idaho book gives it a 27, of which 17 (out of 20) is for the approach.

In my opinion, it is a pretty easy strip. Fly Idaho also says you need a Super Cub at the big 4. Didn't have a problem in the 170. A good pilot can (and has) taken a 150 in and out of them.

aktahoe1 wrote:


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Careful, that knife cuts both ways.....

Yeah it does. It's also sharp and pointy


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robw56 wrote:

rw2 wrote:

robw56 wrote:I guess if I wrecked at an easy strip like Wilson Bar I'd feel the same way.

Wilson Bar is an easy strip?

Short-ish
Blind approach
Intimidating bluff on short final
Constrained in a valley

The Fly Idaho book gives it a 27, of which 17 (out of 20) is for the approach.

In my opinion, it is a pretty easy strip.

Yeah. But, why? If being short, blind and constrained doesn't take a strip out of the "easy" category, what does? I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, I'm just curious on what it is based.

This is the most ridiculous thread in recent memory.

rw2 wrote:Yeah. But, why?

Because I landed there and it was easy, and then a Mooney landed behind me.

Rob,

Very nice picture, and I enjoyed the video. I've admired your flying skills ever since I met you on Willies tour of the Bob several years ago.
The talk of Wilson bar makes me want to run over there. Such a fun strip. Reminds me a lot of Shearer in the Selway. I've got some pretty sweet pics somewhere. Such a peaceful place, it even has a windsock.

If you are in the BItterroot, drop in, the Flying Hawkes and I would love to show you the Home School Course. We've added a couple of strips, lots of fun. Bring that Ak Tahoe guy, seems like a likeable chap.

Richard