Anyone hear anything about the west yellowstone pilot campground being closed? A friend called yesterday and was told that there was “an issue with the county and permitting” and that the campground was closed until further notice. Anyone know what is going on? This is an awesome spot and this surprised me.

silflexer wrote:Anyone hear anything about the west yellowstone pilot campground being closed? A friend called yesterday and was told that there was “an issue with the county and permitting” and that the campground was closed until further notice. Anyone know what is going on? This is an awesome spot and this surprised me.

I was going to stay there a couple weeks ago on my way up to Missoula. I called the manager and he just told me he didn't think it was going to re-open anytime soon. He didn't give a reason. I went to Cody instead and had a great time then on to Missoula.

Jim

On http://www.yellowstoneairport.org/general-aviation.shtml:


Nearby info, unknown if related, at http://www.yellowstoneaviation.com
"...Effective March 30, 2018, FBO services at the West Yellowstone Airport will be provided by Choice Aviation out of Cody, Wyoming....
For those wishing to camp with their aircraft, there is a small campground located at the north end of the tiedown ramp for pilots and passengers. The campground is in the trees and has picnic tables, fire pits, a pit toilet and hot shower. The shower is generally available from mid June until September. Freezing temperatures before and after those dates limit the time of the showers operation. Tents can be pitched any where among the trees, and campers will generally share the tables and fire pits. The campground is provided and maintained by the Montana Aeronautics Division, and there is no charge for its use, however, the aircraft parking fee of $5.00 per night still applies."

Similar campground info is echoed at the new FBO's website at http://choiceaviation.com/west-yellowstone/#tab-id-5

Appears Montana Aeronautics Division calls the shots here; perhaps the Montana RAF liaison may have some knowledge.

iPat wrote: perhaps the Montana RAF liaison may have some knowledge.

Hey, that's me. I talked with the airport manager just now. This past spring a new hangar was going thru the permitting process and it came to the attention of Gallatin County that there was a camp ground at WYS. Somehow the county claims that they were unaware of this camp ground that has been there for 40 years. Well the camp ground has an outhouse and the county claims it is not approved even though Montana Aeronautics, the owner of the whole airport, not just the camp ground, has a document from the county dated 1978 saying they saw no issues with the camp ground.
The airport manager has submitted some documents to try and resolve the issue. The first is a temporary solution to use port a potties until a final solution can be hashed out. But of course you need to submit an application to use those so they are hoping in the next week or two to get at least that part taken care of. Until they do the camp ground will remain closed.

Bureaucratic nonsense is not limited to Washington, DC.

Cary

One of my favorite lines from the movie Snatch with Brad Pitt....

"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity"........

Flying Dave wrote:One of my favorite lines from the movie Snatch with Brad Pitt....

"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity"........

A hundred years ago, when I was in my freshman Poli Sci course at Wyoming, my prof often used this phrase: "Congress has never been accused of doing anything reasonable!"

Since then, dealing with governments of all levels, I've been convinced that it's not limited to Congress. Individual members, by themselves, may be entirely reasonable, intelligent beings, but put them together and call them "city council" or "planning commission" or "county commission" or "state legislature", and suddenly they become dingbats (that's a technical legal term, FWIW). I learned this the hard way, when I chaired the Laramie Airport Board for nearly 11 years, and had to deal with the City Council and County Commission over a number of issues, mainly funding.

Cary

How's that old saying go? If a pilot shits in the woods but nobody was there to see it, does it really need a permit?

I dislike closing of public properties absent a sound reason, but bacteria can be a sound reason. Would be nice if the airport authority defined "re-opened soon".

Would someone please point me to an official FAA AFD listing that includes a "campground" or "camping facilities" ? Camping areas are Not shown for KWYS, or 3U2, or O22...

- Why isn't a campground within the airport boundary listed in the AFD? Even if I do not remain overnight, having the ability to rest at an airport campground makes me a safer, refreshed pilot. I prefer to avoid FBO pilot lounges.

- If the FAA AFD included campgrounds, then is an airport authority obligated to NOTAM a campground closure? This alone might prevent future campground "disappearances" (due to filing required timely notifications).

Does anyone know of a campground within walking distance of West Yellowstone?

That depends on your definition of "walking distance". It's doable but we just rented a car from the Avis counter. But we were also going into the park. I hope this gets resolved soon. Stupidity. Just like a strip I've been working on in Utah. I was told this week that we would need to show how rehabing the strip would "enhance wildlife" since that is the easement criteria of the USFG...which gave funding to the state to acquire the land that a historical strip sits on. When I asked for an example of what that meant, the reality guy for the state I was talking to had a hard time answering. Government.

gahi wrote:Does anyone know of a campground within walking distance of West Yellowstone?

The FBO does have "crew bikes". The bikes are a bit rough, but a lot faster than walking.

Cary wrote: Bureaucratic nonsense is not limited to Washington, DC.

There is a very nice playground for kids at the Bremerton WA airport KPWT,
it's located between the diner & the terminal building.
A great place for kids to play while their folks watch airplanes,
and a good bridge between "them" (the non-flying public) and "us" (the aviation community).
A friend of mine is the airport manager there , he tells me that the FAA has told them to remove it because:
1) it's not included on the layout plan in the official Airport Master Plan. (seems like no big deal to amend the AMP to include it)
2) it's preventing aeronautical use of that area (there's plenty of other space available).

Seems like they'd have bigger fish to fry elsewhere-
just tell the airport to include it in the next AMP and let it go.
Just another incident that has lowered my opinion of the airports division of the FAA.
(which wasn't too high to begin with)

Looks like a deal has been worked out between Montana Aeronautics and Gallatin county and the campground should be open by the end of the week. A couple porta potties will be brought in for the rest of this season. Check the notam's for the airport to see if the closure has been removed prior to flying there with the expectation of camping.

Kudos to Pete Smith, President of Montana Pilots Association and Tim Conway of MT Dept of Aeronautics for getting this figured out. Turns out it was a lot more complicated than first glimpse, and a couple engineers were able to sort it out.

MTV

The camp ground should be open this morning with porta potties. A deal is being worked out for next year for a permit so the outhouses can be put back to use.

A note this morning from Tim Conway, Director of Montana Aeronautics:

Hi All,

Thanks for your help in getting this issue resolved. I finally caught up with Matt Kelly on the phone and I believe we’re on the same page. The Yellowstone Airport campground should be open for business sometime this morning. The airport will be providing 2 porta potties for patrons for the remainder of this year and the expectation that we should receive a permit prior to next season to resume operation of the existing privy. Now, get down to the Yellowstone Airport and get some camping in – before the smoke!

Thanks,
Tim

MTV

Good to hear!

Thanks to everyone that worked on this. This would have been a huge loss. It’s amazing that such a fuss was kicked up over it and how somehow some people had no idea it was there...from what I gather. Anyway, glad it’s being resolved and that the parties are willing to keep it open.