So how do you guys de-ice your plane when you don't have wing covers? I was thinking pump up sprayer with windshield washer fluid and heated water mix? Or doing it like the big guys and using a heated Type 1 de-ice fluid.

If'n it was me, I'd invest in a good set of wing/tail feather covers, and the best quality engine blanket you can get.

It'll save your paint and fabric, and a whole lot of elbow grease from scraping. Plus it's an added bonus of being part of your winter survival gear for warmth, shelter, and bright colors to signal with.

No covers... Scrape and broom. I would not want to be spraying windshield washer fluid all over my fabric airplane.

From Wikipedia

Consumer advocacy groups and auto enthusiasts believe that the alcohols and solvents present in some, but not all, windshield washer fluid can damage the vehicle.[citation needed] These critics point to the corrosive effects of ethanol, methanol, and other components on paint, rubber, car wax, and plastics, and groups propose various alternatives and homemade recipes[specify] so as to protect the finish and mechanics of the motor vehicle.

Gump

What Gump said.......best alternative if you screwed up and didn't get covers on in time is get it in a warm hangar to thaw out.

I used de icing fluid on my Beaver on Amphibs in Kodiak, simply because it was too tall to put covers on, and Kodiak is windy. Got the fluid from Wien Air....the stuff has an expiration date . Got it free, put it in a garden pump sprayer, somewhat diluted, and kept the sprayer in the furnace room of the office...nice and warm. Worked great.

But, as Gump said, I'd be very reluctant to spray anything like that on a fabric plane. If I had to choose, I'd get a jug of RV anti freeze...its at least non toxic.

Best choice: Good covers. An airplane in Alaska without a full set of covers is never ready to fly.

Next best choice, on a one time basis: warm hangar.

MTV

Just out of curiosity, is it possible to use covers regularly without scraping VGs off or is that just the cost of doing business?

You should be able to, as long as the wind isn't howling.

If it's blowing hard, you have a battle on your hands. Especially if it's freezing cold and your fingers won't work. And if it's REALLY blowing hard, you don't want covers on anyway, because they will come loose and break something or saw a hole in the wing.

Gump

If the VGs are glued on right, they should stick pretty tight. As Gump noted, covers in a wind are a tough deal. I really like mesh covers for that reason. Even those can be a PITA to install in a wind. The manufacturers of those will add a reinforcing strip over top of where the VGs are to help prevent damage to teh covers.

Mesh covers with velcro to add spoilers are also a nice touch, and they work. Only down side is carrying around those mesh covers and the spoilers.

MTV

I used to use sisal rope draped from leading edge to trailing edge and work it like floss moving out to the wingtip. It gently rubbed off the frost and light snow with a few minutes per wing unless it had been out in the sun and re-frozen. I used a soft hairbrush for other surfaces and the tail.

Metal floatplane at remote locations you'd broom best you could and/or throw a loop of rope over and saw it back and forth. When reasonably smooth if there was still some crust you could take off light, climb it to some altitude, then dive it to vne a couple times. Back to the dock and it would be perfectly clean. Old timers told me about it. Don't know if it was skin friction or temp inversion.

Don't know if fabric works the same and I can't advocate flying knowing anything is sticking to the wings or tail. Just saying what's been done under who knows what desperate circumstances.

RP, i had VGs on my Citabria and didn't rip any off in the many times i put on/took off my wing covers.
To the OP, I once forgot my covers and thought that windshield washer fluid would work good. It didn't do a thing. Didn't wreck the fabric, but didn't get eid of the ice either.

A1Skinner wrote:RP, i had VGs on my Citabria and didn't rip any off in the many times i put on/took off my wing covers.
To the OP, I once forgot my covers and thought that windshield washer fluid would work good. It didn't do a thing. Didn't wreck the fabric, but didn't get eid of the ice either.

Those types of fluids will only de ice if they are warm.

MTV

mtv wrote:

A1Skinner wrote:RP, i had VGs on my Citabria and didn't rip any off in the many times i put on/took off my wing covers.
To the OP, I once forgot my covers and thought that windshield washer fluid would work good. It didn't do a thing. Didn't wreck the fabric, but didn't get eid of the ice either.

Those types of fluids will only de ice if they are warm.

MTV

It was warm when used...

RanchPilot wrote:Just out of curiosity, is it possible to use covers regularly without scraping VGs off or is that just the cost of doing business?

Kennon is in Sheridan. Lots of good stuff, all excellent quality. http://www.kennoncovers.com/

I have their cowl cover, prop & spinner covers, windshield cover, wing spoilers, aileron gust locks, window sun shields, and pitot cover, which are stock items. Because the cowl opening for my P172D is unusual, I had to make a pattern and send it to them, and they made me a one-off version, for the same price as their stock cowl plugs. When I wanted a cover for my AOA probe, I made a mock probe out of balsa wood, sent it to them, and they made me a probe cover, for the same price as their pitot covers.

Cary

A1Skinner wrote:

mtv wrote:

A1Skinner wrote:RP, i had VGs on my Citabria and didn't rip any off in the many times i put on/took off my wing covers.
To the OP, I once forgot my covers and thought that windshield washer fluid would work good. It didn't do a thing. Didn't wreck the fabric, but didn't get eid of the ice either.

Those types of fluids will only de ice if they are warm.

MTV

It was warm when used...

Then it needed to be hot....

Point is, windshield washer fluid won't melt ice. It won't freeze, but that in itself doesn't mean it'll MELT ice.

Even with the deicing fluid I used on that Beaver, I left the spray bottle, partially filled with fluid in the furnace room, then just before going out to the plane, I filled the bottle with scalding hot water. That combination takes ice off.

I believe the deice trucks at commercial airports heat the fluids, anyone know for sure?

MTV

It was warm when used...[/quote]

Then it needed to be hot....

Point is, windshield washer fluid won't melt ice. It won't freeze, but that in itself doesn't mean it'll MELT ice.

Even with the deicing fluid I used on that Beaver, I left the spray bottle, partially filled with fluid in the furnace room, then just before going out to the plane, I filled the bottle with scalding hot water. That combination takes ice off.

I believe the deice trucks at commercial airports heat the fluids, anyone know for sure?

MTV[/quote]

The de-ice fluid we get on our planes at work are a heated Type-1 that has to be at 140 for minimum but most are around 180 and if it's snowing, a Type-3 for T/O.

N300RE wrote:The de-ice fluid we get on our planes at work are a heated Type-1 that has to be at 140 for minimum but most are around 180 and if it's snowing, a Type-3 for T/O

N300RE has got it. In the 121 world a propylene or ethylene glycol solutuon is used diluted with roughly 50% water and heated to 140-180 degrees.

Just asking, because I don't know. Would you want that sprayed on your fabric covered airplane?

Gump

GumpAir wrote:Just asking, because I don't know. Would you want that sprayed on your fabric covered airplane?

Gump

A fabric plane NO, but I was wondering about a pump up sprayer type rig to de-ice NOT a high pressure heated professional sprayer. I was referring to what kind of temps we use on the big iron, not what I was wanting to use. I need to buy wing covers but I was trying to find a cheaper alternate to wing covers for light early morning frost ice.

Last fall in Willow Ak. used everclear in a spray bottle on the windshield, horizontal
stabilizer and elevator.....only because it was to frick'n cold and dark to install the covers the previous evening. Dried with a clean soft bath towel...windshield first. Will be selling my wing covers if they don't fit.....installing crosswind STOL wing tips...once I get to the wings. Mangling Kydex for the past couple days.
Mark M.
Platinum Ak.

For the light stuff, get a push broom from Home Depot. Just designate it as airplane only, so no one actually sweeps the floor with the thing and gets dirt in the bristles that would scratch the paint. But, I assume you guys do that already with your work airplanes if they overnight out of the hangar.

For ice ice. As in landing with an iced up airplane from flying in the crap. My tried and true tool was my Leatherman in it's leather case. Wouldn't scratch the paint on the leading edge (only use on wings with no boots), but it was firm enough to scrape the ice off. Kinda chewed up leather cases though.

Gump

I would be VERY reluctant to use any kind of chemical to de ice a fabric covered airplane. Who knows what kind of reaction that stuff may have with the fabric, but, considering the cost of a cover job, I seriously doubt anyone really wants to find out.

As Gump says, if you just have snow on the plane, brush it off gently with a push broom. If you're really iced up, find someone with a warm hangar, and pay them whatever it takes to get de iced, then buy some good quality wing covers. Alaska Wing Covers is right there in ANC and makes good stuff.....easy, and you're going to need them.

MTV