Split from "Off to Shot Show"... Just trying to make this place easier to browse! -Z
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John,
My wife and I are looking at doing some huckleberry picking in northwest Montana this summer and she is very worried about Grizzlies. I personally don't worry since I can outrun her easily Actually, I was thinking of just carrying my .38 with hydra shock +P's. I know it isn't exactly elephant stopping power, but how much does it take to deter a Grizzly? I also have a 12GA that I can load with 00 if needed, but I hate to haul a shotgun around all day. Do you feel that a .40 might be OK or do I really have to lay out the big bucks and get a .44 or maybe even a .454 Cassull (sp?). Even a .40 is going to run some pretty serious dough these days. Too bad I had to sell my entire gun collection a few years back, I will never be able to replace all that I had collected.

N3110V

Anything short of a .44 mag is just going to piss a grizzly off. A shotgun with buckshot is marginal at best, better to use rifled slugs.

I prefer to carry a dangerous game rifle when I'm in grizzly country, which I admit doesn't happen very often, at the very least a .44 mag with a short barrel like Jr. is looking for. The .454 Casull is too heavy to carry around all day.

The best thing to do is be very wary of your surroundings and don't get between a grizzly and his meal or her cubs.

I think picking huckleberrys might be a problem, that is their meal. So I guess I have to start looking for a decent inexpensive .44 that I can comfortably carry all day long, and fits in the plane securely.

Is there a .30 cal rifle that could be comfortably carried around while stealing bear food? Maybe a slung .30-30 Winchester? I know that if I get charged by a grizzly my ability to shoot straight will go straight to hell, a rifle may help. Maybe I should just stick to outrunning my wife

N3110V

This is something to consider if you're lookin' to be able to stop a grizzly or a brownie. These are very popular with guides and pilots in AK. Cost is about $500 - less if you can find one used or at your local gun show. Good bear stoppers are not inexpensive.

How much at your place John?



Marlin 1895M Guide Gun 45/70

The SKS with a folding stock sounds like the ticket, both for power and price. A friend of mine managers a gun store over in Bellevue, so I will contact him and see what price he can get for me on something like the SKS.

Thanks

N3110V

Yes, his name is John Clarke, he has been the manager there for several years. I don't know how much of a deal he can make, but it is worth a try.

A nice couple from Moses Lake was gonna go huckleberry picking in Montana, and were worried about bears. They told the forest ranger they talked to about it that for safety they would wear "bear bells" & carry pepper spray.He told them that was fine for black bears, but some area also had grizzly bears. How will we know when we're in grizzly territory, they asked. He replied that any bear scat they saw would have little bells in it and smell like pepper.

Eric

Minimum 12 gauge with slugs. .338, 300 ultra mag.
The 38 would work well to shoot yourself in the head wile the bear is eating you!!

i carry a .45 ACP if the bears look hungry.
a friend of mine in AK carries a .454 cassul rifle. it is a small lever action that actually fits in a backpack. very nice setup. i priced them a year ago around $750-800.

of course a folding stock 12ga loaded slug/shot/slug works every time.

When you see those guy's up close and personal any weapon looks a little underpowered!!

I'm a firm believer in kenetic energy. In the plane I carry a model 29, 4" ss with 305 gr Corbons. Marginal at best and it takes a little practice to handle it. Chelle is just getting use to it. I also have a Marlin 45-70 guide with 505 gr soft nose for walking about & hunting. In the cabin we keep a 12ga Mossberg with alternating .00 buck and sabot rounds. Is it enough? I had to kill a Blackie that came into the cabin and was dispatched with three rounds. He was persistant but 250lbs. Until he came up on the deck and in the screen door, I was content to watch. here's the kicker; at the range it's loud and bucks in your hand, in the field with the adrenaline pumping, you never hear the gun or feel the kick. You'll also be lucky to hit the inside of the barn. Pratice and be very familar with what you shoot, whatever it may be.
In bear country, I have found that it is always good to make noise. I have never "jumped" a bear but have seen plenty. Usually their backside shuffling away. They don't want to be bothered and they usually have more of a dislike of you than you do of them. Also, the most dangerous time is when there is not much food, usually, right after they come out of the den. I treat the outdoors like any other foreign country, I'm a visitor.
I personally love the bell story!

OK, Eric you win, I got to work this morning around 6:30 and you actually got me laughing. So what you are saying is... I would use the .38 to shoot myself in the head while the bear eats other parts, except that I would be so scared I would probably miss and hit the bear, just pissing it off more.

I think that I will look at an inexpensive rifle, the SKS looks like it may work. When I have the money I will buy a lever action 45-70 I saw on one of the gun makers websites yesterday. Small, powerful and ohh so expensive.

I bought a Marlin 45/70 from jmtgt. Nice and short for a rifle. Took it with me to Alaska and Canadian Customs had no problem with it. If you're ever headed up that way they will have a coniption fit if you bring a handgun.
Dave

I don't have any time in Alaska, but personally I would go along with Kurt's choices: 12 gauge or big bore lever gun. 45-70 Gov'mint, 444 Marlin, 450 Marlin, 348 WCF-- all goodies. Some similar old wildcat rounds are out there too: 450 Alaskan (using a necked-up & blown-out 348 case) and 458 American (using a shortened 458 Winchester case).
The 454 is a big round for handguns but I would think that there are better choices for shoulder guns for large carnivores. Maybe an RPG?

Eric

Jr.CubBuilder wrote: M5 is that lever gun of your friend smaller than the Marlin guide gun? If so perhaps you could find out what brand it is.

its a puma M92. a beautiful gun in stainless steel with fiberoptic sights. very similar in size and shape to a marlin .45/70.

You guys know how I love to stir the pot, so here goes. Do you really think you could either draw and fire a hand gun, or shoulder and fire a rifle with a Griz bearing( ) down on you? Most people are surprised by Grizzlies. I've read two stories of bodies found with the rifle still on their shoulder. I think the best defence is an overweight mother-in-law in uncomfortable shoes.

Speedbump,
I have to agree, even if I manage to get the gun into position to fire, what in gods name makes me think I could hit a charging griz? If I'm lucky I won't shoot my own foot of while trying to get a shot off. No, for me I think the running defense is best...as long as you are the fastest one in the group

N3110V

Couple of things you might want to keep in mind.

Pepperspray is a must if you want to avoid being brought up on charges after killing or shooting a charging Grizzly. The so-called experts have proven through actual tests that pepper spray does work in some situations. The first thing they will ask during the investigation of a dead Grizzly is "Did you have pepper spray"? If you say no they may charge you with careless destruction, since bear spray is readily available and you did not have it on your person in known Grizzly territory allowing you a non lethal method to stop the aggression.

It takes a brave person to stand in place and wait for the bear to close the distance to the effective 10 yards before discharging the spray, especially if you have a rifle at hand. At least if you have the spray you can shoot the bear dead with the rifle and then liberally apply the full can of spray to the bear to make it look good.

Many people have blind faith in the almighty 44 magnum when in fact it has much less killing power than a humble little 30-30 win. When I'm camping in bear territory I have a high capacity 12 gauge pump loaded with one ounce slugs laying next to the bedroll.

If you think you can hit the grizz, a 4 bore, stop him dead in his tracks, but you have to hit him. For more information please consult Unintended Consequences by John Ross, try ABE.com. Another good book is Boston's Gun Bible by Boston T. Party

I think I will probably go with the shotgun until I have enough extra dough, although now that I have a plane that will probably never happen...too many toys to buy. As far as drawing and firing a pistol, I used to shoot competition PPC courses and placed 5th on average, so I can draw and shoot...paper! I just feel that the longer sight radius would assist in a high stress situation, and when it comes down to it, I already have a shotgun. But I most definitely would love to have a .444 lever action or a .45-70, but I haven't won the lottery yet.

Maybe I was just hoping someone would say "yeah, I kilt me bear with my .38, no problem" but then again, I know a polar bear that was taken with a .22 short, not something I would like to rely on for protection. All well, if things go good, this is all just conjecture anyway...if not, you will be reading about the little old couple from Moses Lake that had pepper spray and bells on

N3110V