Don't ever underestimate the speed of a bear. We have had a sow that has been getting our dumpster and when startled she can really scoot. Much faster than than anybody can run. BTW, it finally took a whole bottle of ammonia to keep her away from the dumpster.

I received this from an anonymous source and while I completely disagree with it (in case the co-pilot logs in ) I thought I should share it.
Ten Reasons Men Prefer Guns Over Women

#10. You can trade an old 44 for a new 22.

#9. You can keep one gun at home and have another
for when you're on the road.

#8. If you admire a friend's gun and tell him so, he will
probably let you try it out a few times.

#7. Your primary gun doesn't mind if you keep another
gun for a backup.

#6. Your gun will stay with you even if you run out of ammo.

#5. A gun doesn't take up a lot of closet space.

#4. Guns function normally every day of the month.

#3. A gun doesn't ask , "Do these new grips make me look fat?"

#2. A gun doesn't mind if you go to sleep after you use it.

And the number one reason a gun is favored over a
woman....
#1. YOU CAN BUY A SILENCER FOR A GUN



Mark

Unfortunately, a silencer for a gun will get you in as much trouble as letting my wife read that list. At least I can bail out of jail, something I haven't figured out how ot do with my wife

N3110V

From what I understand, possessing a silencer is like possessing a fully-automatic weapon- it's legal IF you have the required federal permit. Trouble is,from what I hear, is that the permits are pretty hard to come by. John, you're probably an FFL holder and in the know on this stuff-- care to fill us in on the details?

Eric

Not hard if you have a clean record and live where it's allowed. Used to be a 500 dollar tax stamp per weapon I think, don't know if that's still true.

Clean record, $200.00 federal tax stamp and a thumb print would get you a full automatic. Silencers/Suppressors fell under the same requirements. Technically you can not loan or otherwise let anyone use the full automatic.

If you buy the full automatic through a corporation you bypass the background check and permission letter from your local authority. Also buying it this way allows everyone listed in the coporation to use the automatic. Strange as it seems this loophole exists and is used frequently.

Think there is a mandatory five years in prison if your caught with either without the proper paperwork.

John and I have gone through this one pretty thoroughly but I'll share with the rest of you too. Might be of special interest to the WA guys.
I purchased a Walther P22 and wanted the "suppressor" to go with it for the occasional Grouse, rabbit, etc.
I contacted a Class III dealer I know in the area to purchase this item. It was then that I learned that it is legal to buy a suppressor in WA. But if you install it, you're an immediate felon! My friend here said that he won't order them for anyone as he is afraid of being an accessory. Welcome to Washington.

I know this has been covered, but I forgot when the Johnson Creek fly-in is scheduled. I am hoping I can make it, won't know for sure until about a week prior.

N3110V

No John, you had a noisey gun. And you didn't bring it to Klamath Falls breakfast either. We were all very disapointed

I'd like to have a bayonet attached so I could let the dying bear crash down on it just like in The Edge.

Yeah! I own the DVD. Ha.

This subject has been beat to death elsewhere, but what the hey. In Alaska, all of our folks who work in the field are required to attend and pass bear and firearms safety training.

We didn't have a lot of bears killed, but I can tell you that some charging bears have been killed by folks who were armed with long guns. I know a few of them. These were grizzlies, not black bears, but all bears are unbelievably tough.

I know of NOBODY that's ever killed a charging bear with a handgun, though I suppose it could be done. I'd like to meet the guy who did it though.

I taught bear and firearms safety till I retired. I sometimes had folks show up with a handgun, major macho, super experts. To a person, none of them could shoot their handgun for beans. If you are a competition shooter with handguns, maybe, but these are BIG handguns, and these are stressful situations. Look at the record of police shoot outs: frequently there will be 20 rounds fired, and no or only minor injuries. Stress does that.

We used primarily a Remington model 870 pump action 12 gauge shotgun, with 20 inch barrel and rifle sights. Period. Great gun, easy to use, will still function if you drop it in the muck, then let it dry. Try that with your 458 bolt action rifle.

Also the 12 gauge allows you to use non-lethal deterrants, such as cracker shells or bean bag rounds. A lot of bear incidents, particularly around camps, could be avoided with a little negative stimulus. No other gun I'm aware of offers that flexibility.

They are totally safe, really easy to use and learn, and with just a little practice you can get very competent with one. We used a "running bear" target, which "charged" the shooter. Fun little exercise, and you'd be surprised how much it gets your pulse rate up.

We also used Brenneke slugs, which are really potent rifled slugs, especially compared to sabot slugs. These things really pack a punch.

A brand new Remington 870 can be had for less than $300. Or, buy a used one, and buy a 20 inch rifle sighted barrel for it, and you'll have a duck gun and a bear gun. Barrels last I heard cost less than a hundred bucks.

Finally, if you're going to carry a handgun for bears (and sometimes that is the best you can do) make certain it is one YOU CAN SHOOT well. I've seen way too many people who feature themselves Dirty Harry, but couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with that .44 mag. Shoot the sucker with .44 special to build proficiency, then load it up and get a sore hand.

The new lightweight .44's from Smith are wonderful, but I have to believe they'd kick like a bay mule.

As the man said, though, staring death in the eye, bay mules don't hardly seem like a love tap.

Just learn to shoot whatever you decide to carry. Most don't. Then, its just excess weight.

MTV

After winning several metallic silhouette competitions using a Smith mod 29 44mag with super hot loads and knowing what it's not capable of, I can tell you it wouldn't be my first choice for bear. Unless I had time to climb a tree and could shoot straight down at the bears head and neck while he was climbing after me.

A good reliable 12 ga pump with slugs is hard to beat. I tried putting a pistol grip on the pump to make it nice and compact, which it did. But when it was shot with the heavy slug loads your wrist, webbing in your hand and thumb would hurt really bad. We put the full length stock back on.

It's also versatile and able to put grouse and rabbits in the pot if you carry a few birdshot loads.

If Grizzly Bears are a serious concern, go camping where there are trees and become proficient in climbing them. Grizzly Bears do not climb trees.

blueldr wrote:If Grizzly Bears are a serious concern, go camping where there are trees and become proficient in climbing them. Grizzly Bears do not climb trees.

You may be another misinformed Californian when it comes to Grizzly Bears. Any tree I can climb quickly with protruding branches, can also be easily climbed by a Grizzly. Also note, a frying pan is no substitute for 12 ga slugs.

I think if you eat a bowl of grape nuts and just ignore them, they'll go away. Also, according to popular media culture, a Bud Light will work as a decoy. Lot of bear commercials lately.

Somewhere in this wreckage of a computer, I've got a nice picture of a pretty hefty brown bear perched about fifteen feet up a cottonwood tree.

Don't believe they can't climb trees. They generally don't pounce on unsuspecting tourists from trees, but I wouldn't bet my life on either my ability to climb trees, or their inability to do so.

MTV

OK, Here is one post that I can speak to, I live in SouthEast Alaska and play with brown bears for a living, I am talking about the coastal Grizzly that is quite a lot bigger than the Montana type.

Most of the old guys around here will tell you that if you intend to use a hand gun for bear defense you should file off the sites and coat it with vasaline so that when the bear shoveis where the moon don't shine you can get it out easier.

Some of the old guides used to use "saw shot" OO buck shot split part wat through and crimped onto piano wire then placed back into the shell, really nasty stuff.

In truth, prevention is the best defense and once a bear is truly pissed off nothing not mounted on tracks is a sure stopper.

I myself carry and reccomend a 12 guage shotgun loaded with with two rounds of no. six bird shot and the rest buck shot. The bird shot will destroy the bears eyes and nose and give you a chance to use the buckshot to break him down and kill him. The shotgun points quick and does not need to be aimed like a rifle and is fairly easy to carry.

The pepper spray is real good at killing pilots and passengers but not much good for stopping a bear. Please, Please do NOT carry pepper spray in your plane, if the thing goes off you WILL crash.

I usually find a big stump to sit on and let my wife pick the berries, I doubt if it really does much good but she does all the work and it makes her feel better!!!!!

Shane

Shane's got it.. as others do.. use the shotgun. My Dad was a commercial outfitter here in MT for about 30 years... we got to get up close and personal with quite a few Grizzlies.... and even saw a few finished off with pistols. I always just carried a .357..figured it would do about enough to get me killed or out of trouble.... but alot of the Grizzly stories around here (and elsewhere, I'm sure) are blown WAY out of proportion!! I had a friend that was bow hunting a couple years ago and got between a sow and her cub unintentionally... didn't see or hear her until she hit him... and he's got the scars and missing meat to prove it.... his first thought was that it was a Grizzly... but it was a brown... ANY bear or any animal will defend it's young!!!! You wanna see something to be scared of?? Look at a cow moose defending her calf!!!!
They're right on the money when they say that an ounce of prevention is worth a ton of cure!!!! When you're berry picking, don't get so lost in what you're doing that you forget about "situational awareness". Probably not the best idea either, to be carrying a paper sack full of bacon sandwiches while you're picking berries!
If you're still worried when you come over here to pick, I've got a great friend that's a game warden, and also flies...he'd be glad to talk to ya! I'd be glad to see ya stop in here too, if you come by this way.. Hanson on the Great Falls sectional...
JH

I have actually heard of the birdshot thing with bears, but I guess I kind of passed it off as another tale. It will have to be a 12 gage for me, cost is important now that I also have to feed an airplane.

I'll just be happy when the weather finally realizes that it is supposed to be spring! I shouldn't complain, at least I don't live on the west side of the Cascades, wet and rainy.

I firmly believe that the birdshot idea, and for that matter, using buckshot on bears is a very bad idea.

Double O buckshot has nine pellets, of .38 caliber. The velocity of each of these pellets is substantinally less than that of a .38 caliber revolver. So, with this load, you'd be as well off carrying a much lighter and compact 9 mm auto with a fifteen round mag, and really hose him down.

If you have a bear that is charging, shooting it in the face with birdshot will do precisely nothing, except piss off the bear. You may be correct--it may blind him, but if he (or she) is charging, by the time you get that round off, they will be really close, and the trajectory of several hundred pounds of very upset bruin will take care of the situation. From that point on, the bear can use the braille method on you.

Anyone (and yes, I said anyone), with a good bit of practice and training can learn to shoot VERY accurately with slugs from a 12 gauge shotgun. Slug rounds are serious pieces of work. They not only do a lot of damage, but they deliver a great deal of energy directly. It's all about breaking them down at this point. Buckshot is an anti personnel round, just like the .38 or 9 mm round is.

Slugs is what you use when you are serious.

I have dealt with bears, including problem bears for many years. For a day to day carry every day gun, the 12 gauge with slugs is the ticket.

Leave the bird shot at home. It is NOT the right thing to do.

Here's one final thought on this: Suppose you blast a bear in the face with bird shot. The bear does in fact turn and run away. You've now left an animal out there to suffer, and perhaps to attack the next human that shows up. Is that ethical?

In this kind of situation, if you are justified in using a gun on the bear, you are justified in killing it. To do so, you need to use the right round, and learn to place it well.

DON'T use bird shot, please.

MTV

Wow,
You guy's must really like those berries. I'm from the south and it's alligators and cotton mouths here and I've never seen a real brown bear, but if there so bad you have to set up a defensive perimeter etc. to camp I believe I'd just buy the berries at the store. What about Claymores? would Claymores and trip wires be effective? I just can't imagine being hunted by a hostile animal that was big enough that it took 12Ga slugs to bring it down. What do all of the little tree huggers and anti gun people do up there? or did the bears eat them long ago?