Airspeed is altitude and altitude is airspeed. Other than the extra energy developed by staying in low ground effect as long as possible, they should be equal. For one accelerating IGE only to Vx before pitch up to Vx, the lack of maneuvering speed seems less comfortable. This is especially true in a engine failure. A dive toward the obstruction and zoom climb over would probably work, but seems a little scarier.

All of my engine failures ended in energy management turns to a close LZ except one from high, two straight ahead to runway, and one straight away to cotton field. Zoom out of the field I was spraying made most non events.

Agreed, why hurry away from Mother Earth[emoji289]. Always the end destination anyhows.


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What were the various causes of the engine failures you experienced?

12 Nov 70: Small arms fire. Shot down in Song Be Mountains of S. Vietnam in AH1-G Cobra on area checkout first full day in Apache Troop 1st Squadron 9th Air Cavalry Regiment 1st Cavalry Division.
1980s I think: Lost engine on C-175 coming out of Sante Fe airport. Landed on road near Santa Domingo Pueblo. No damage.
1991: Hot engine on Pawnee spraying onions near Hatch, New Mexico. EM turn out of onion plot to near paved road. No damage.
1991: After Boss/Mechanic maintenance hot engine on Pawnee on final to Las Cruces, New Mexico. Landed on runway. No damage.
1991: After maintenance hot engine spraying cotton. EM turn to Rio Grande levee. No damage.
1991: Hot engine. Can't remember where or particulars. No damage.
1991: Hot engine putting Trigger on cotton. Pull up and landed straight ahead in next cotton field. Turned Pawnee on back.
1994: My A9B CallAir. Engine failure in EM turn to onion field. EM 90 degree turn near cotton field. Hooked wing and cartwheeled. Broke right spar twice and knocked the engine off.
1996: Billy Howell's 135 hp Super Cub w/Ag student. Engine failure coming out of field. EM turn to adjoining field. No damage.
1997: Knocked top of rudder off (under wire, corn too tall) Jerry Bhenke's very nice Pawnee and landed on road. No other damage.
1998: Underwood Aerial Patrol C-152 on TEPPCO Bowie to Duncan line. EM turn to airport. No damage.
2000: Underwood Aerial Patrol C-177 on TEPPCO Wichita Falls to Gainsville line. EM turn to forty acre field. Tore gash in stabilator on metal fence post.
2003: Brentco Aerial Patrol C-172. Mouse hair clogged nipple strainer in carburetor on takeoff. I was in one feet ground effect and just landed straight ahead.

contactflying wrote:Airspeed is altitude and altitude is airspeed. Other than the extra energy developed by staying in low ground effect as long as possible, they should be equal. [...]

I would have thought that it is ideal to accelerate only up to 'best glide', as this is the speed with the best lift / drag ratio? Neither lift nor drag are linear to airspeed, I therefore don't think that altitude and airspeed are exchangeable? Am I on the wrong track?

Do you like to call it zoom instead of airspeed for military reasons, or is this personal preference?

It sounds like your next book could be about how to effectively install an engine so it doesn't get hot and make you zoom. Actually I could probably help you write that book if you want. We could tell people how you can trade temperature for altitude. We can title it: Zoom for Kelvin's. It will sell like HawtCakes.

Thanks for the endorsement but the concept is burrowed from "Stick and Rudder, by Wolfgang L. Great read. I have given him credit in the past, but should have again.

Delete

Oliver,

Airspeed is actually kinetic energy of pressure airspeed on both lifting surfaces (induced lift/drag ) and non-lifting surfaces (parasite drag ). The longer we accelerate in low ground effect, up to max speed, the more kinetic energy developed. The more kinetic energy developed, the more altitude can be traded for. Or this extra energy, over what could be developed out of ground effect, could be used to maneuver as aggressively as necessary to make a near LZ in the hemisphere plus a few degrees to our front.

Best glide pressure airspeed would be consumed quickly in aggressive maneuvering. That is why the school solution is to land straight ahead, regardless of what is there. I have always taken advantage of the greater maneuverability provided by the extra free energy of the basic low ground effect takeoff or low ground effect swath run. I takeoff in low ground effect every time, even though this low ground effect phenomenon has only saved my bacon ten or so times.

Thanks for the question.

Jim

Darinh wrote:Delete

Why did you delete it Darin...it was funny.

Jim, looks like you should have wrecked that Pawnee on the first engine failure and it would have saved you from 4 others[emoji3]

Whee, I knew this mechanic /operator well enough to seriously consider your suggestion.

He often said, "Don't whine. " But he didn't collect lease until after the season , he didn't require hull insurance, and he didn't whine about the damage.

I grew up in that world, but Ag was rapidly changing at that time. We were dinosaurs trying not to become extinct.

whee wrote:
Why did you delete it Darin...it was funny.

My conscience and Zane's "Please Post with Care" thread got the best of me. Besides, I never liked Zoom anyway...

Darinh,

As instructors, we have to observe the body language and comfort level of our students. It is unproductive and dangerous to ask someone to go beyond their comfort level. I am uncomfortable with high pitch attitude engine climbs, even in an airliner. I know it can be done in little airplanes with big engines, but I am not comfortable doing it.

Contact