I am looking to do more winter backpacking/camping. Mostly lower 48 stuff, nothing artic level yet. ( maybe around 0*F) I don't really have any fancy gear.

The stuff I snowboard in isn't the best for hiking. My winter wear on the farm is mostly carhartt type stuff. Lots of cotton which works okay when you are working all day and end each day in the house.

Anyway, I am looking to get some nice winter clothing. It usually isn't cheap, so I am also wanting to be able to use it when flying in cold weather. Which means I would like to avoid stuff that will melt to my skin in case of a fire. It seems ALOT of winter hiking gear is synthetic.

(speaking of fire, google "russell county kansas fire" if you want to know how my December went. We were fortunate compared to our neighbors.)

I know some of this has been talked about before, but it seems like new stuff is always coming out.

What I have gathered is that merino wool seems to be the way to go. I can see using that for the base layers, and maybe midlayers. I see where some use fleece as a midlayer, but I don't think thats great in a fire.

For outer layers, it seems most people use a softshell of some kind, but I assume that stuff is made of poly? What would be a good outer layer to wear in the plane?

Maybe there is no good outer layer for both flying and hiking, but the merino layers should be good for both, right?

Anyway, just curious on people thoughts about winter clothing that is safe for flying, but could also be used for hiking. I'm trying to kill two birds and save a little money where I can.

Also, I was looking at a company called Baffin. They make winter boots. Anyone know about them?

Thanks for your input.

P.S. Now that I think about it, my survival vest is probably synthetic. I should look into some fire resistant options.

Talk to some of the AK guard herc guys about extracting burn victims after a crash in polypropylene or any synthetic stuff, it will put chills up your spine.
Silk or merino wool is what won’t stick to you when bad things happen. I wear an old set of Woolrich pants or a set of military wool surplus pants while winter flying. I also wear Pendleton wool shirts, or an old 100% wool sweater from Filson I bought 20+ years ago.
Merino wool socks are on my feet year around and in the winter it’s a pair of bunny boots with gaiters.
My wife always makes fun of me, but if bad things happen hopefully I’m not screaming in the back of a herc while a couple PJ’s are pealing the burnt melted plastic off my body.

Wool for warm and no melt and Nomex for outer anti-fire. Leather boots or any new stuff that won't melt or burn. Don't wear Nomex socks if you have diabetes or nerve issues. I wore a big blister with those and still have the circular scar. Wool socks summer and winter. My nerve damage makes my feet cold always. Merino is warm and comfortable.

I flew Medevac Hueys. Yes, medics have no use for clothing that melts. Yes, Nomex will melt after 5,000 degrees for five minutes which is not an issue. I only saw burnt skin and sculls smashed enough to close eyes without helmets, no melted Nomex. We did medevac but not body recovery.

Smart wool base layers, marmot makes good jackets, have good socks and waterproof and good boots, I like the American made soft toe Chippewa loggers, gloves can be a pain in the ass to find a mix of dexterity versus warmth, and a good beanie or hat.


I wore nomex for a living for half a decade, I don’t wear it for my personal flying. It’s hot in the summer and cold in the winter, and most of the survivable crashes it wouldn’t have helped anyways.

Wool, layers of wool.

I’m in central North Dakota where the temperature can be minus whatever to 15 above in the same day. Hunting, ice fishing, snow shoes and flying, I wear wool. Might have a cotton t shirt in there somewhere but wool long underwear, socks, pants, shirt, coat, and hats are all wool. Deer hide chopper mittens and gloves, leather boots. The warmest coat I have is a hooded sheepskin shearling bomber jacket, bulky but no cold weather will cut through it.

I like wool because it still insulates when wet, breathes and somewhat self regulates temperature, and it’s fire resistant.

Where to find good wool garments?

King’s long underwear, Schnee’s wool pants, Filson everything, and Red Wing boots. Unfortunately Woolrich no longer exists in the US.

I do wear synthetics for cross country skiing and Carhartt for work.

Modern day FR clothing doesn't have to be uncomfortable or unfashionable. The industry has far more options now days than the old olive drab flight suits. Even many big brand 'regular' clothing makers like Carhartt and Wrangler have entire FR lines, and wool cotton or silk make good options (not as good as purpose built FR, but good) in any brand.

For flying, put Icebreaker and Massif in your favorites.

Ice breaker is expensive, and Massif is more so. Figure out which models work best for you and shop the clearances. You don't have to go broke wearing this stuff.

Flying colder wx, I used to wear FR or Nomex every layer, but with the different thicknesses of Icebreaker available, I find merino more comfortable, right up to the point where you no longer need a base layer.

This is by far my favorite flying outer layer top down to +/- 50° or base/mid layer in cold-cold. They say they're Nomex, but the inside is more like a polar fleece texture, and they are super comfortable. I wear these in sand or black (so I don't look like GI Joe) regularly for day to day clothes even when I'm not flying.

https://www.massif.com/flamestretch-pullover.html

Massif's long johns are OK, but not near as comfortable as merino, so I'd pass on those unless you're on a job that requires tagged FR.

FR specific, Drifire makes some good stuff as well, but doesn't retail, so buying their stuff requires finding who has what you want, and that in itself can be a circus. I do like their FR hoodies though, and like Massif Flame Stretch, they are comfy.

https://www.drifire.com/shirts/drifire-combat-fleece-hoodie

Take care, Rob

Wool, three layers or so. For years, at work I wore a Nomex base layer that was really comfy….race car stuff. I had three or four sets, but all worn out now. Haven’t found any Nomex base layer that’s warm enough since.

So, Smartwool base layer, then some heavy wool pants. My favorite “pants” when I flew in Alaska were Filson bibs of heavy wool. I liked them for flying especially. Bring $$$.

I wear smartwool long underwear top, wool shirt, and depending on temps, wool sweater. Then. LL Bean parka as appropriate.

I’m with contact on socks: Wool, period. Wear em year round, just different thicknesses. I wear Smartwool socks. Other brands I’ve tried don’t fit my feet well. Smartwool socks wear well and I launder after every wearing.

Gloves: I got to really like the Nomex/glove leather military flight gloves. Then, in cold, hang a pair of mitts on a lanyard around your neck. I use the AF Arctic mitts in REAL cold.

Shoes: In general very cold flying, I wear a pair of Air Force mukluks, treated with water proofing. They’re NOT water proof, just water resistant. When I was doing a lot of ski flying where chance of getting wet, I ALWAYS wore bunny boots. If temps were likely to drop below -10 F or so: Always bunny boots. They are about the only boots that have been demonstrated to keep your feet from freezing, even if wet.

It’s really unfortunate that good quality wool clothing costs so much today. The good news is, I wore those Filson bibs a LOT during twenty seasons operating around the Arctic Circle. Wear like iron. Dry clean only.

MTV

Very hard to find a one fits all occasion clothing. I usually dress with wool/Carhartt for flying but carry other clothing for on the ground. Around camp a big down puffy coat with hood rocks. Full side zip heavy fleece pants and a fleece vest help with layering. Don't forget a set of good rain gear. Down and fleece don't do well around a pine campfire so having Carhartt jacket and jeans around the fire will save some of that fancy stuff. Winter I fly the cub in bunny boots, Cessna in a smaller set but still carry Bunny boots. I guess what is best is to dress for the flight then change for the other events. DENNY

I got an alpaca wool sweater last year that I've worn hiking, skiing, flying and just for normal wear to the point where it's annoying my wife. It's super soft and comfortable, while having the warmth of down, almost. Breathable too. Way lighter than normal wool, but still fire resistant. Feels more like wearing fleece.

No affiliation, but these guys have nice looking alpaca stuff at reasonable prices: https://www.pakaapparel.com

I’ve done quite a bit of winter camping and winter sports. The last 15 years or so mostly when flying on skis. Like others have said wool, wool, wool. That said though keep in mind wool can be a static generator so be cautious when dealing with fuel.

The last few years I’ve been wearing heavy wool pants from the Canadian company Big Bills. I also have a wool jacket they make but for cold winter wear like we’re discussing here it’s usually a Carhart hooded jacket. I bought my Big Bills clothes direct from Quebec but I noticed earlier this month that the ranch supply store Murdoch’s is carrying their line now.

For boots I like Schnees pac boots. With the airbob sole they’re good on snow and also work fine with snowshoes. I have some old down mitts for very cold wear. A neck gaiter is great and snow gaiters over the boots / lower pant leg.

The skis are on the Cub and I’m waiting for a good weather window to get into the backcountry.

When out and about in arctic conditions I wear wool. Strangely, most of the locals go out in cotton long johns, jeans, insulated wind pants. and cheap jackets. Not this cowboy!

I wear wool long johns. I don't mind the itchy kind - doesn't bother me. I'm old fashioned - I use the one-piece, you know, the union suit with the flap in the back. I find them more comfortable than the two-piece, but that's just me.

Wool pants and shirt. Light cotton windproof jacket while sitting in the 'plane. Light leather gloves. Any kind of warm hat compatible with a headset. Steger mukluks on my feet - light weight, warm and comfortable and can be used with traditional snowshoe bindings

On the back seat or in the baggage compartment I carry my military Sorels and an expedition down parka with fur ruff. (Yes, it's nylon and that's why I don't wear it while flying). Beaver-lined leather hat that covers the ears and my beaver mitts on "idiot strings". A pair of nylon wind pants to keep the snow off my wool pants when hiking to the cabin.

Those Snow Goose/ Canada Goose parkas are warm but they are heavy and over-priced, though the denim outer shell is reasonably fire-resistant. Personally, I prefer the light weight of an expedition-type nylon/goose down parka, and they are at least as warm as the heavier parkas. In the coldest weather I carry a pair of insulated wind pants, the type with a denim cover, or one piece insulated coveralls with a denim outer layer

Fur ruff around the face is important. Don't leave home without it.

Take a thermos of hot, sweet tea to keep the furnace going.

Oh, yeah…..headgear. I still have my Upper Yukon Marten hat. Hardly ever gets cold enough in Montana to wear it, though. Maybe tomorrow.

MTV

Thanks for the info so far. Sounds like I am on the right track with merino layers (maybe some massif, too), then just getting different shells for flying and hiking.

We are supposed to get below zero tonight. Wind chill is supposedly -11*F right now. Usually it gets this cold every now and then (Kansas). I should try to test my gear a bit whenever I decide on what to get. What Kansas lacks in actual temperature, it can kinda make up for it in wind chill.

Oh, anyone know how yak compares with wool? A family friend raises yaks and Dad got some socks in a yak blend. I am wearing a pair now.

Work has provided me with massif gear. The Elements line is windproof fleece like and I like it, but personally I’d stay away from their base layer stuff, specifically the Cool Knit line. It’s comfortable, and I don’t doubt the FR ability (I haven’t tested it), and maybe it’s just me, but I find the high tech engineered fabrics have a special ability to bring out the worst in BO. After a day of the Cool Knit stuff I don’t want to be around me anymore, can’t imagine what it would be after a couple days camping. In addition to wool’s other benefits, it also does a good job with oder control. Don’t get me wrong, I generally don’t care what I smell like (with in reason) while outdoors, but the Massif Cool Knit brings it to an unacceptable new level. Just my 2 cents. Oh, and I’m also a huge Filson fan…expensive yes, but no regrets on anything of theirs I’ve bought.

Some of the military FREE (Fire Resistant Environmental Ensemble) is pretty nice actually. The IWOL Jacket and pants can be paired with a midweight FR fleece and if you add a wool base, there is some serious warmth there. For work I am pretty comfortable with the FREE base layer, regular flight suit pants, and for the top I wear the base layer, fleece, and IWOL jacket and its great for that -20F to 0F range for me at least. If you shop around it can be found as others as mentioned, Massif sells it new but you can also buy surplus that will be from other manufacturers.

There's Merino and there's Merino.

How much merino does it take to eliminate the bad fire effects of polypropylene? 50% Merino is warm and wears well. 100% is expensive and isn't very abrasion resistant, so it wears out a lot faster. It's possible to buy 90% and others.

Does 50/50 merino/poly burn more like merino, or more like poly?

http://www.stanfields.com




Mens heavy weight wool union suit .
For some reason now referred to as a “onsie “ or some such on their website .
Like growing another hide .
Century old staple for miners & loggers .
NOTHING like them imho .
Used to be you could find them in every hardware store in MT , ID , WA , OR , AK .
Still widely avail in most Canadian stores ( made in Nova Scotia ).
A rancher outta Dubois WY that likes them as much as I do sells them on ebay for $$119 .
His ebay handle is “tkrotw” , item # 251734372536

Man I am glad I read this. I normally wear synthetics as a base layer for the usual cold weather stuff, hunting, fishing, camping. Never thought about catching on fire, looks like I have some shopping to do. As far as layering, my typical go to for 20F and less is good long johns, close fitting polar fleece shirt-jac, down jacket, wool coat and wool pants, Muck boots with thin wool socks or no socks.

Thanks for the bump, spammer.
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A lot of us are getting ready for the change of season, as the days become colder and colder. If you are a woman who loves to hike, the best item you can have is jackets. A lot of stores have a wide range of jackets that are suitable for hiking, from jackets that can protect you from rain to jackets that can be used in cold conditions. If you are planning to buy jackets for women for this fall and winter, please go to a _that sells quality hiking clothes for men (spam link removed), and choose a jacket that has a favorite style.

I wear a base layer of merino wool top and bottom. I choose the thickness of the base layer based on the degree of coldness.

I then wear Massif Elements Tactical Jacket and Pants over the base wool. It’s amazing stuff. The fleece provides warmth and the membrane in the material provides water and wind resistance. I throw a large down coat over the top of the Massif jacket when standing outside in sub zero degree temps but usually doff the coat when I jump in the plane to fly.

Footwear starts with wool socks (thickness depending on the temps) with my Arctic Ice Muck Boots over the top.