I have recently been shopping insurance for my C180 and was surprised and bummed to find out what insurance rates have done in the last year. I have used Falcon insurance the entire time I have owned my 180. I have had a million smooth policy on it the whole time. My rates the last several years have been between 2000-2200 per year with the mil smooth policy 130K hull. This year Global Aerospace who has been the underwriter for the last 10+ years would not cover the mil smooth and only gave me a quote for the 1 mil/100K limits. Falcon said AIG would give me the expanded coverage for 3700 per month. The rate for the global aerospace without the mil smooth at 130K hull was reasonable at 1500/year. I have 2500 total and 1300 tailwheel. I fly between 80-100 hours per year and have ratings through CFII/MEI. I have no claims, or incidents. I shopped the rate with BWI and got a similar quote. Are any others insuring at the higher limits for liability protection? I had to bind the insurance and went with lower limit policy due to my old policy expiring this weekend. I am upgrading the avionics and getting new paint this winter and will not be flying much until the summer where I will readdress this issue. My agent at Falcon said the reasoning for the higher rates was due to an across the board increase in rates for GA combined with the underwriters being less willing to take on high risk airplanes. The C180 being considered high risk because of backcountry operations. The policy does allow off airport and flight into Mexico/Canada. Are there any other options to consider?


Josh

This seems like the current state of affairs across the board. It gets even worse for the experimental side of the house. I’d say take what your wallet can afford and what gives you piece of mind and carry on.

Can you explain the million smooth---never heard that before. I always had the 1 mil/100K.

1 million smooth gives up to 1 million total for all damages involved. The other policy limits the maximum amount of insurance money to 100K per passenger. Damages to personal, and/or structures on the ground are covered up to the full million with either policy. With million smooth a single passenger would be eligible for the million total. It really comes down to how much coverage you want your passengers to have.


Josh

Try Mike Strombeck at Aviators Insurance in Van Nuys CA. He got me $1M smooth for a reasonable price when Falcon said impossible. This was a few years ago and I still have it.

800-663-5118

[email protected]

Best,

Tommy

I too have heard the insurance market after many years has turned up in expense...their expenses have likely gone up. Owner flown turbine market had a huge up tick.
Issue to me is who you want to protect yourself from..claims wise. I almost exclusively fly family members....they don’t sue. The issue to me has been damage to those I don’t know.....taxi into a lineman. The truth is the plaintiff lawyer will sue for the maximum of the policy...whatever the level. After seeing the damage to ground structures this week...3 aircraft accidents...a million is going to go pretty fast.

Twenty years ago, million smooth policies were readily available and reasonably priced. Since then, that coverage has become much harder to find, and much more expensive when you can find it. In fact for some types of aircraft/configuration, it’s impossible to get now. Frankly, I’m surprised anyone offers it for GA.

A reflection of the insurance underwriters risk tolerance.

MTV

My agent said to prepare for a bump in rates when I renew in March.

Insurance is risk sharing and we had a high number of accidents in the last year.

Rates are up, just renewed. But worst news, tried to add a friend as a named pilot, 21,000 hour ATP CFII with thousands of tailwheel hours including in type-but, over the age of 75. Old Republic will now only allow 75+ age pilots to fly dual with a qualified under 75 pilot.

I use Avemco. They won't give me $1 million smooth. Best I have gotten from them is $1 million total with $300K sublimits.

I have always found Avemco to be expensive

a3holerman wrote:I have always found Avemco to be expensive

… and Avemco has surcharges for AK and most of Canada. They don't seem optimal for backcountry pilots.

I've used Avemco since 2001, which is as long as I've owned an airplane. That includes 3 years of living in Anchorage. I have had excellent service from them, especially in 2003 when my Cub was damaged during a windstorm while tied down at Merrill Field. They even waived the deductible, and their service after that event is one reason I have stayed with them even though their rates seem higher. If you want to know what I'm paying, PM me and I'll compare notes.

Avemco tells me that their rates are higher because they settle claims quickly and, 99.9% of the time, within the limits of the policy. They also claim that they will defend me to the end with no limits on legal fees etc. Also, my policy covers Canada and Alaska at no extra charge (below 67 degrees latitude) as long as I'm not there more than 30 days. When I was based in Alaska 15+ years ago, they covered me even though I did typical off-airport stuff in my Cub, including skis in the winter. Finally, even though I've been reading about a tightening insurance market, Avemco tells me they are not aware of any rate increase when I renew next summer.

So I'm pretty happy, and plan to stay with them indefinitely. Insurance is one of those things where what's right for one person isn't what's right for the next person, and the biggest thing I do to protect myself is be careful how and with whom I fly.

I just renewed my insurance with AVEMCO. No price increase for the same coverage as last year!! They do tend to cost a bit more but they apparently know how to balance the risk because they have not raised prices.
DENNY

Will AVEMCO write $1 million smooth ever? 1M/300K is just too little if you have any assets to protect. I have 2M smooth and wish I could buy more.

Whenever the topic of AVEMCO comes up, no one who’s had a claim ever has anything bad to say. If I could get the limits I wanted, I’d switch to them in a heartbeat.

The insurance industry, especially underwriters that will insure GA, has shrunk to a few underwriters. It is now becoming near impossible to do much shopping. If your broker comes back to you with a highish quote, then you go to another to shop. Well, they go back to the same small group of underwriters. These guys are, "yeah we saw that one." So unless he has other business to wave at them to get them to change, they usually do not. Sometimes brokers will shave their cut on the fee to get a new client, or take a bigger slice of the risk, which reduces the underwriter's exposure.

One of my best buds sold his agency last year. He did my work worldwide and my War Risk. He said time to leave the industry. It does this, the number of underwriters contracts. Rates go up. Underwriters outside the aviation world eye the returns and creep back in. Cycle repeats.

There are other trends. Aircraft like the Cirrus are becoming more numerous. They are virtually un-repairable and total out for small incidents. We all pay for that, kind of like the affordable health care thingy. The trend for un-repairable new aircraft is becoming more commonplace (and they are unbelievably expensive!). There has also been an uptick in Controlled Flight Into Terrain (suicides). GA has been shrinking, underwriter pool has been shrinking, liability has become more costly, medical has become more costly, aircraft are totaling. So the pice goes up as the collective pool's overall exposure is increasing.

Dogpilot is correct on several counts. One thing to understand is the bit about the number of underwriters.

For the entire time I flew in Alaska, if you went to any broker with a request for quote, that broker literally put that policy on the floor at Lloyd's London, and an underwriter would bid on that individual policy. Think about that......

AVEMCO underwrites it's own policies, taking the middle man (broker) out of the picture. They are also very risk intolerant. For several years, I was insured with them in Alaska. Then I decided to flight instruct in my airplane....no solo, just dual. AVEMCO said "No thanks", and politely refused to insure my airplane for flight instruction, on floats, in Alaska. So, I went elsewhere. I had no losses, but all I could afford was liability.

When I moved back to the lower 48, I shopped around for insurance, and AVEMCO offered a good price. Wasn't the best price for comparable coverage, but close. And, AVEMCO has a superlative record of settling fairly and quickly. And, while we really hope we'll never need to file a claim, that's when the quality of your underwriter becomes VERY important to you.

I've insured with AVEMCO (liability and hull) since 2006, and I'll likely stay with them till they throw me out.

I once asked an AVEMCO rep. a few questions about off airport operations, as in am I insured. The answer was an unequivocal "Yes". If you haven't asked that question, and gotten a similar answer from your underwriter, give them a call to verify, or stay on airports.

Another question I asked AVEMCO: "Would you cover an accident on my airplane if, for examply, I'd forgot to renew my medical in time, or the airplane was a month out of annual?" The answer was "Yes, but we MIGHT not choose to insure you the next year".

The price of insurance is only one factor you need to consider when buying insurance.

MTV

Insurance rates going up is a steady topic of conversations now in AK. My broker said to plan for 40% and hope for 25%. I have never had a claim, folks that have had a claim are saying up to 100% increases for 2020.

I love flying tailwheel aircraft but I think we take such a hit in expenses on the insurance end. I have always assumed (wrongfully) that the cost difference was reasonable. My fear is that this number may rise exponentially forcing tougher decisions like carrying less coverage. I have flown twice (solo) in the last 10 days with the lower coverage and have thought about how I would feel carrying passengers. I have to admit I would feel better having the million smooth policy. I will probably just capitulate and pay the higher premium after I am done with the upgrades. The difference is manageable but it makes me wonder how much more flying is going to cost in the future. Also makes me second guess whether it would have been more practical to have bought a 182. The answer is probably but in all reality I just have this weird attachment to tailwheel aircraft and don't want to fly anything else. It reminds me how I felt when I was 16 and insisted on driving a stick.


Josh