175 magnum wrote:Thanks Brian. I am following this project big time as I am working on my 1960 c175 project which has been accepted into the amateur built class here in Canada. Did you do the straight tail conversion? I am in the process of doing that on mine including the float plane enlarged vertical stab. Plans are for the sportsman kit, flap gap and aileron seals etc. , very similar to these projects. I am really interested in the installation of these tanks and watching to see if they will work on my project. I am also planning on doing a FLAT floor extended baggage compartment. Are the wing tips with the led lights and the sportsman cuff something you sell as part of the kit or is it a separate item?
Thanks again for the pictures and info as it is helping me make numerous decisions.
KenW

Ken..

I did not due the straight tail on the C model.. it was done before the current owner bought it.. I did do the straight tail with tail wheel conversion on the D model I mentioned on post #75... will have to get a picture of that one..

The wing tips, sportsman wing cuff and WingX modification were all bought from Stene Aviation in Montana..

Your project sounds interesting.. what engine do you plan to use..??

Brian


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How long do you figure the steps and handles took? A friend has a 172xp and wants me to help him put them on


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Tom wrote:How long do you figure the steps and handles took? A friend has a 172xp and wants me to help him put them on


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3 to 4 hours tops... the hardest part was getting behind the panel for the handles... had to remove the co-pilot glove box... Our 172XP has them, let me know if you need pictures..

Brian


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Brian
I am using the LS3 motor with a Blue lightning 2:1 reduction unit. belt drive. Not sure which prop yet but the MT electric will work but looking for other composite options. My dad and I scratch built a Bearhawk and used a 4.2 litre Landrover v8. It has over 2000 trouble free hours on it but so much was custom one off stuff designed and built by us. The scope of this project is to use as many off the shelf parts as possible. I am very interested in the pictures of the 182D tailwheel /straight tail conversion as I may want to convert this project to tailwheel in the future and it might be wise to pre-do any changes to the airframe at this time/ or not.

You guys have it good up in Canada!

What was a paperwork nightmare for a Sedan down in the States was no issue once the new buyer came and picked up the plane and took it to Manitoba, then completed it using the owner maintained category.

The owner maintenance category is excellent. The limitation that causes me pause is that it becomes ineligible to fly in the US.

Pinecone wrote:The owner maintenance category is excellent. The limitation that causes me pause is that it becomes ineligible to fly in the US.

Same here. That and the inability to run a constant speed prop or have more then 200hp also holds me back somewhat...

pipeliner wrote:

Brian-StevesAircraft wrote:
Pipelined asked about check valves... There are none with the new tanks.. Just two 1” hoses connecting both tanks together.. basically just one big tank at this point... which is interesting because I maintain a 59 182 that has the old old Monarch tank installation with transfer fuel pumps in each wing.. run a Maine tank dry, switch to the other main and then pump the aux tank into the dry tank...

Brian

Thanks, Brian. I always wondered what was "normal." I really don't like having fuel in the outboard tanks when I don't need it or want the extra weight. I'm also considering ciEs fuel gauges, but I'm not sure how to calibrate them since fuel will flow to the outboard tanks.

Ross

I'm going to have to correct myself here... When I first looked at the tanks I noticed no check valves in the kit.. What I failed to notice is that there are two "flapper" valves already installed in the main tanks... These are simple hinged valves that are supposed to be one way fuel flow. However, the design IMO is pretty poor... As it is, one of the right tank valves does not sit flat when closed so I am going to have to figure out how to straighten it out.



Here is the flapper that is not closing all the way....



And here is a blurry picture of both flapper valves internal of the tank. Note that I have the vent system removed.. This is the right fuel tank, they installed the vent system in this tank instead of the left tank. So I am transferring the parts to the left tank and HartWig is next day shipping me parts to plug off the vent hole of this tank.

Brian.

Thanks Brian. That is good to know about the flapper valves. Either mine don't have the flapper valves or they leak by significantly. I think your customer will be very happy if you can get the flapper valves to seal.

My installation has vents on both wings.

Ross

Some more thoughts on the tanks...



As already mentioned, the tank vent was set up In the wrong tank.. This airplane being a 58 only has the left tank with the factory vent tube.. looking at the right tank here, the fitting with the red cap has to be moved to the left tank.. The fitting next to that is the cross tube venting system and it needs to be moved to the front location.. Then a plug fitting will be installed there...

Hartwig was right on the problem and actually offered to have me ship back the tanks overnight on their UPS account so that they can switch everything around but I asked for just the parts and will do it myself to save a bit of time.. So they are shipping the fittings overnight..



Left tanks here... I will have to drill a 3/4 hole just aft of the vent tube fitting seen at the end of the main tank and move it.. The factory vent valve is actually laying on top of the tank and it will be installed at the forward location.. once both tanks are installed the vent tube will lay on top of the aux tank like in the photo and route to the original vent location behind the wing strut..



End rib removed for install...



The tank “floor” has to be modified slightly by cutting out the corner for the tank drain.. as you can see the old drain area has been hacked out by some amateur in the past and patched over.. going to have to change out the old STC’d drain system anyways because the tank drain needs a flush surface..



Tank slid in so we can figure out the drain location and modify the end rib for fuel lines and fuel sending units...



Rib marked out for trimming... the fuel gauge senders are mounted directly to the tank so the rib needs to be opened up to get access to it for maintenance... also need to get complete access to the vent and fuel pickup fittings...



New modified drain plate installed...



The drain hole is at a completely new location also..

Overall impression...
The tank itself is good quality plastic type construction.. it’s a good heavy wall and It definitely will outlast any bladder tank out there.. I’m dissatisfied with the fitting locations though and the flapper “valves” separating the aux tank is not a good design.. even if both of them sealed against the tube they would leak past.. there is zero sealing surface on them, just a metal to metal contact..

More to come..

Brian


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Some more fuel tank stuff...



Drilled out the left tank to move the vent system around..



Took out the one flapper “valve” that I knew was not sitting correctly... Yah, this thing is what is used to separate the aux tank from the main tank and keep the fuel flowing one way... [emoji848][emoji849]



Took me all of about two seconds to remove the flapper with a pair of needle nose pliers... took a small pair of channel locks to bend the attach block back down against the tube..



This is the end of the tube... looks to be cut off with a band saw and left raw...



DA paper on a hard surface and hand sand that tube until it’s smooth...



After sanding the crap out of it...



Put back together and adjusted so it sits right... going to remove all three and adjust them to my satisfaction...



Top wing skin marked to cut out for the aux tank...



Ridaer cutting and drilling...



Tank bay opened up, center rib removed and getting stringers set in place to drill...



The outer bay rib has to be opened up for the “Z” stringers to be installed over the original “J” stringers... this will be for a tank “floor” to be installed later..



The top stringer locations also need to be opened up for some new “Z” stringers that get installed over the tank when installed..

More to come

Brian


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I’m guessing the flapper valve is to prevent large volumes sloshing between the tanks rather than any serious one way valve function?

Brian,

I’m a bit familiar with the old Sierra tanks we had on a 206. They had no valves between tanks at all. While those “flapper valves” look a little cheesy, (not to mention really poorly made) if any debris got in there, worst case, gas would still flow, and sloshing could clear it.

Had they used a check valve.....a bit of debris might block it, and might have to remove it to clear. Who knows? But, I’d probably just assume those will all be one tank for planning anyway.

I flew a U 206F that had the mains replace with Monarchs. Great tanks, but they reduced main tank capacity by several gallons a side. So, the owner of this one is probably going to be using those aux tanks a LOT.

What do they list as unusable for the two tanks in a wing?

MTV

Brian, thanks again for posting all these photos, complete with narrative.
I'm finding it all very informative.

Thanks for the comment on the ither thread Brian. I'm curious, are you using Monarch caps with these tanks?

A1Skinner wrote:Thanks for the comment on the ither thread Brian. I'm curious, are you using Monarch caps with these tanks?

The owner already had the monarch main caps. The the aux tanks of course have their own style caps that look like the main tanks but they are not screw on... I’ll get some pics of that..

I know of all the problems some owners have had with the Monarch cap.. so far the is owner has been happy with his...

Brian


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Ok. Glad he's happy with them.

So we have had the left tank’s in and out at least a dozen times each and are still not quite ready for final install...



Remember that fitting the manufacture was going to send me to plug off the extra hole now in the right tank because of the mixed up installation of the vent valve fitting..? Well, this is what he sent me... this fitting combined with the below cap..



Yes, he expects this flat fitting to seal against a 37 degree cap.. [emoji849].. needless to say, I chucked this piece of crap.. and..



Promptly bought this fuel bulkhead fitting from Summit Auto Racing with a real 37 degree nipple end cap... I ordered this part Wednesday afternoon and had it Thursday with ground shipping.. Summit is on top of their service game..



With the welding wire trick and an extremely long extension with a socket I got the plug installed and have 100% confidence of a leak free port..



On to installing the bits needed for the auxiliary tank bay... these are all of the “Z” stringers fit over the “J” stringers along with the cross pieces fit ready to start putting in the tank bay floor..



And here is Riedar drilling the tank floor into those stringers for eventually installed cherry max flush rivets..



This is the first of many, many times that the auxiliary tank is set in the bay for fitting of parts... here we are fitting the top stringers... these get screwed into place with the tank lid...

As for the “Z” stringers... the kit comes with 6 bottom stringers. 2 left and 2 right top stringers and two forward “support” stringers that are used at the front of the bay... our kit had 1 forward support stringer and 3 right top stringers .. [emoji849] .. just another example of pour quality control.. by the way, I’m am using one of the extra right top stringers for the missing support stringer.. they are bent the same way..



We set the tank lid In Place to mark it for drilling all the attach perimeter screws and the top stringers..



The outer main bay rib needs to be drilled out for the fuel lines, vent line and to clear the original vent tube here...



After trimming it we found out it needed to be cleared not only for the vent tube but also for the other fitting next to it...



Speaking of which, here is the vent tube valve assembly installed into the tank.. you have to make a new “straight” tube in accordance with the STC and it is a royal PITA to install... use a new piece of welding Rod with the end bent into a T configuration.. the tube is put onto the wire, fish the long end of the wire through the tank fitting and use it to pull the vent tube into place.. Same method was used in all the flapper valves I straighten out and the vent tube fittings themselves..



All of the new vent tubes are just cut ends with no beads... let’s fix that..



Super rare Parker beading tools... this is on loan to me because my buddy actually has two of these kits..



With the tube inserted into the correct tool...



It creates this perfect bead on the tube for the hose...



I also beaded the end of the vent tube coming out of the tank once I figured out what length it needed to be..



Back to the main tank for a second... located and installed the gas filler ring with more 10/32 screws than the instructions say to use... they only have you put in 3.. I liked the idea of more to keep it more secure against the bottom of the flange.. this is just showing the drilled holes without the screws in yet.. the screws that you do see are the 1/4 - 20 screws that will eventually be used to install the filler cap flange...



Also installed the fuel sender but first flattened the mounting location with a file because screwing a flat piece against a non flat surface is asking for leaks.. [emoji849].. need I say more here..



Took a bit to make me satisfied it will work...



This is where we stopped for the weekend... the tank needs to be removed again so I can get the inner connect hoses trimmed yet again. the auxiliary tank bay needs more work. And I’m not 100% satisfied with the vent tube system routing.. but, it’s getting there...

Brian

PS



This is the auxiliary tank lid and filler neck... just like an old Ford cap..



With a flat seal..

Brian

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Just about done with the tanks... couple more days next week and we should have them done then it’s wait till painting is finished..



Taping up the aux tank bay before final install...



There are two shim “plates” that keep the tank against the front spar and the outboard tank bay rib...



One of the two 1” holes to tighten the 1” transfer hose clamps between the two tanks on the auxiliary tank end... the hoses are mounted and tightened to the main tanks before it is slid in place...



Just enough room to get a gear wrench on the clamp...



Moved the wing out and did a water leak test...



Leak test was successful so we moved it back in and installed the end rib..



And finished it off by installing the tank cover... some of the holes were slightly off so had to use a tapered pin grinder to get them opened up a bit...



Put the left wing away and moved in the right wing...



Right wing auxiliary bay opened up..



And working on the modified structural parts..

Brian


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Such an informative post. Good work! After all this, if you had to do it again if it were your own plane would you go Flint or Monarch?

Thanks for keeping us