Happy Thanksgiving Everyone! I am writing to share an experience I had today that I had pondered, but did not figure would effect me. I was wrong.

This afternoon I received a call from the FAA and they were not calling to wish me a happy holiday.

They were responding to a report from someone on the ground that indicated two aircraft were nearly in a mid air collision. I was squawking 1200 and there was no way my registration numbers were visible from the ground. They had looked into the radar tracks in the area at the time and had identified my aircraft (from the ADS B that reports my registration number I presume), had dug up my phone number and they wanted to know what had happen.

It was unclear what their intent was and when I asked, they indicated that if I was involved in the situation they would advise me to be alert, use proper reporting procedures and to advise me that I was nearly in a mid air collision. From their questioning, it appeared they were looking for me to incriminate the other aircraft/pilot.

As it turned out, I was in visual and radio contact with the other aircraft and had them on ADS B.

Just a reminder that there are many benefits from ADS B, but it also provides a very detailed record that can be misinterpreted and/or used to incriminate you. They are watching and following up. A consideration as you upgrade in prep for 2020.

Fly safe..

Sincerely,
SI

Glad you posted this. There was a debate a few months ago about me defending my argument that it is none of their business how/where I fly and my position on ADSB. Yes I have it and love the traffic and weather, but glad to know that my fears were in fact correct. This is none of their business and I would have told them the multiple ways they could fist themselves. You want to think it was with good intentions, but I would bet that is seldom the case. These are the same asshats that say one thing then flip flop and can't even be standardized in their own organization.

hotrod180: Time to get the tin foil hats back out. Dammit when I had just put that thing away in the attic.

Timberwolf wrote:Glad you posted this. There was a debate a few months ago about me defending my argument that it is none of their business how/where I fly and my position on ADSB.

I thought air safety was one of the FAA's primary responsibilities? How is it none of their business?

Definitely a debatable subject. I liken it to the police being able to track your speed thru the Waze app on your cell phone and use the data to fine you or suspend your drivers license..

I follow all FARs to the T, but the system is set up so that it is nearly impossible to be completely within all the regs at all times..

Something to think about..

Hsivany wrote:

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I follow all FARs to the T, but the system is set up so that it is nearly impossible to be completely within all the regs at all times..

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catch-22
noun
a dilemma or difficult circumstance from which there is no escape because of mutually conflicting or dependent conditions.
"a catch-22 situation"
synonyms: dilemma, quandary, vicious circle

rw2 wrote:

Timberwolf wrote:Glad you posted this. There was a debate a few months ago about me defending my argument that it is none of their business how/where I fly and my position on ADSB.

I thought air safety was one of the FAA's primary responsibilities? How is it none of their business?

Deep down you really believe the FAA called him to give him a "heads up" and make sure he was ok?

I'm not big on conspiracy theories or being a privacy nut. However, I'm hearing more and more accounts from folks with ADS-B out that have me reaching for my tin foil hat.

At this point, I'm not going to equip my aircraft for a variety of reasons (phone calls like the OP received being one). I guess come 2020, I can save a couple extra pounds pulling out my then useless transponder.

I am much more concerned about hitting another aircraft than I am about some FAA conspiracy. I have ADS-B out and in and wish more planes were equipped because it enhances our see and avoid ability. The benefits outweigh the risks in my opinion.

The first data that had to be entered into my Appero transponder after installation is the ICAO number. Attached to that number, in the FAA database, is all of the info for my aircraft, name, rank and serial number, address. Underware color, etc. And that all while squawking 1200. The circuit breaker works though. I am a believer in the FAR's but that definitely makes me squirm.

Squash wrote:I am much more concerned about hitting another aircraft than I am about some FAA conspiracy. I have ADS-B out and in and wish more planes were equipped because it enhances our see and avoid ability. The benefits outweigh the risks in my opinion.

I cannot disagree with the utility of the system, I love it. The greater argument here is people in positions of power using it as a bad tool to punish. I know I make mistakes from time to time and would sure hate to be burned by my system that was installed as an SA tool, not as a watch my every move tool. However, I don't believe anyone is arguing the ability for the system to give each pilot a tremendous amount of SA.

Same thing could be accomplished without requiring you to transmit your n number, name, address etc!

The only reason I can think of to require this is to track and bust people!

If they backed off of the identification most people wouldn't have as much heartburn about this.

If the real reason was for safety then the faa wouldn't have any problem with doing away with ID requirement

I don't think I've ever suffered from paranoia, but a lot of these conspiracy-related comments make me think others do, at least when it comes to ADS-B Out. Unless a pilot is one of those who purposely misstates his tail number when calling any ATC facility, the system has always made it pretty easy to track him, at least since radar came into general use back in the late 40s and early 50s.

Some years ago I got myself in a dutch with the FAA and had to meet with them to resolve it, which we did--some remedial training was all that they required of me, because my transgression wasn't too serious, I was contrite, and I didn't offer any excuses except temporary stupidity.

In the course of the discussion, the two inspectors I met with told me of another pilot who tried to elude after his transgression, wasn't contrite, and in fact attempted to deny his transgression until he was faced with undeniable evidence. Here's what happened. This was right after a tower had become active at Front Range. The Bonanza pilot was talking with the FTG tower and had his clearance to land there. But he landed at Denver International instead of Front Range. They're about 7 miles apart, and the runways are oriented the same, although the difference in appearance is pretty dramatic. As soon as he realized his mistake, he took off again without any clearance, shut off his transponder, and flew at a very low altitude northeast, apparently trying to stay under the radar, literally. However, Denver TRACON was able to track his primary target all the way to where he landed, at one of the little airports in northeast Colorado (I don't think they told me which one, but I'm guessing Akron). I assume that there was some coordination between DEN tower and TRACON and FTG tower. Meanwhile, the DEN tower chief had called the sheriff's office at wherever the Bo pilot seemed to be heading, and when he taxied in, he was detained by a deputy until an FAA Inspector could arrive by helicopter. It turned out that he was some sort of commercial pilot who earned his living flying. Nonetheless, his certificates were suspended for a year, and apparently he didn't appeal.

So having or not having ADS-B Out won't make a big difference in the FAA's ability to watch when there are violations. But it will make a difference in our ability to keep track of the traffic around us, once all who must have them are equipped. I consider that to be a safety enhancement, because no matter how hard we try, there is no way for us to see and avoid all traffic using just our eyes.

Incidentally, switching off the transponder and/or ADS-B Out when it's required to be on by regulation is in itself a violation.

Cary

The cons are what they are. Such is life when Congress wags with the airline winds. The pros are undeniable. An additional con that has consistently been omitted from the sales job is the very low likelihood of a midair. FWIW, investing in an inertial reel 4 point harness set for the front seats would likely save a lot more lives than AD/S-B OUT ever will. Take a look at the most recent "defining event" General Aviation fatality numbers for 2014 posted by the NTSB to see what I mean. Given the limited funds available to at least a few aircraft owners two things: Recurrent training (to prevent "CFIT", handle "System Malfunction Powerplant"), etc. and improving crash survivability by restraint/cockpit enhancements seems a much better return on investment than another box on the panel the likely won't be monitored any more closely than the sky around when we practice See and Avoid.



Other GA stats can be viewed at the NTSB url below.

http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/data/Pages/AviationDataStats2014.aspx

I cant agree more,

Currently, to the best of my knowledge, the only ADSB which doesn't send you personal info when set to 1200 is the navworx, which currently the FAA is going after for some other stuff, related or not, I wouldn't say yet. I will say that I'm going to wait for them before I make any ADSB choices, or for another vendor to offer a a similar function when set to 1200.

Garmin GDL 88s and 84s also have this ability, but for their price to specs, they are...lacking
http://static.garmincdn.com/pumac/190-0 ... 0A_Web.pdf

Currently I could us ES my 330 and some wire and be done with it, I'm just not comfortable sending that kind of data out, especially with our government and busy body types we have nowadays and double especially since I make a living with my ticket.



Second, all the aircraft I have owned, including my current ride, all have blocked (at the FAA source) N numbers, I thought that would help prevent situations like that of the one of the OP, well then I found this site

https://global.adsbexchange.com/Virtual ... sktop.html

So even a blocked N number will only work to a very limited degree.

PapernScissors wrote:The cons are what they are. Such is life when Congress wags with the airline winds. The pros are undeniable. An additional con that has consistently been omitted from the sales job is the very low likelihood of a midair. FWIW, investing in an inertial reel 4 point harness set for the front seats would likely save a lot more lives than AD/S-B OUT ever will. Take a look at the most recent "defining event" General Aviation fatality numbers for 2014 posted by the NTSB to see what I mean. Given the limited funds available to at least a few aircraft owners recurrent training (to prevent "CFIT", handle "System Malfunction Powerplant"), etc. seems a much better return on investment than another box on the panel the likely won't be monitored any more closely than the sky around when we practice See and Avoid.



Other GA stats can be viewed at the NTSB url below.

http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/data/Pages/AviationDataStats2014.aspx

You're absolutely correct. Very rare in numbers, yes, but as traffic builds in some areas, it's still a realistic fear. If you were to poll (knowing from this last election how warped polls can be ) passengers and pilots of GA airplanes, many would express an almost unreasonable fear of a midair. I've lost a friend to a midair, and another friend survived one but the 2 people in the other airplane died. Friends to many here died in a midair a couple of years ago. They are small in number, but devastating when they happen.

Over many years, I've had passengers question whether they needed to wear shoulder harnesses, ask when they could take off their seatbelts, etc. I've even had pilots riding as passengers take off their seatbelts and harnesses! Clearly their fear of smashing their faces against the panel is minimal. Yet I'll bet those same people worry more about a midair than what might happen if I screw up the landing and go into a ditch.

Will ADS-B Out reduce what is already a small number? Hard to say. It is comforting to me, though, when both my ES transponder and my iPad/Stratus 2 tell me, both on their screens and by voice, that there's traffic and where it is. And it helps me decide what my course of action will be to avoid any conflicts.

Cary

Well doing a touch and go at a international airport, you're not going to get away, but a situation like the OPs, if he didn't have ADSB sending all his info he likely wouldn't be posting this right now

In my neck of the woods, radar doesn't start until the mid thousands, which is a good thing and a bad thing depending.

Where not sending your info comes in handy is when you're flying along and some person with a smart phone decides youre bothering his zen, or have too big a carbon foot print, or are one of those 1%ers, or whatever and makes a anonymous "low flying aircraft" complaint.


A little while ago I was doing a job in the city flying low level along the water IAW all FARs, well some cityidiot decided I was a bother or something so he called me into the feds, a few phone calls later all was well, but I didn't need the stress. Where I live, flying low along the water gets you a waved at, worse case someone at the bar bugs you for a ride, but near the cities and with some of the newer generation, it gets the feds called.

I see zero benefit to sending your personal info, position and altitude and the rest of the ADSB thing is great! I don't think it should be mandatory, I have my reasons why the FAA made it mandatory and the ID thing goes along with that, but I cant think of one operational reason your ICAO and N needs to be sent, or how it helps ATC and other pilots with actual operations.

Of course, if you're doing everything legally but still get unjustifiably ratted on by the 1 percenters, that ADS-B Out might just save your bacon!

Cary

Recently I had a problem with a super asshole in the FAA .He seemed convinced that I had a registration problem and told me my airplane was grounded until it was resolved . The FAA database listed my reg as current (because it was) and he told me that under no circumstance was I to fly my airplane . Well this cost me a couple thousand dollars over the weekend as I had two flying jobs to do out of my airplane . Just so happens that I took this phone call from super asshole while I was out on the lakebed in my airplane . Good thing I'm not equipped with Adsb as asshole would have known where I was . Would have ended up costing me more money and unnecessary harassment . I see no point in anybody knowing where I am unless I want them to know . The whole safety factor is all fine and dandy but it's nobody's business where I fly except my own . Unfortunately our freedoms are shrinking at a staggering rate and our privacy will be a thing of the past . Enjoy it while you can boys .

It is worthy of note that a significant percentage of midairs occur within class D and C airspace.....i.e.: under positive ATC control.

MTV