Zzz wrote:Is it against the regs to just put a switch on the ADS-B encoder, or transponder, whatever? Need real stealth mode and you're not in Class C or B airspace? Flip.

Yeah, you'd lose the traffic avoidance features. But it seems mutually exclusive with the situations where you'd desire stealth.

Yep.

91.225
(f) Each person operating an aircraft equipped with ADS-B Out must operate this equipment in the transmit mode at all times.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk to specifically annoy:
Zane
Hammer

TradeCraft wrote:

Zzz wrote:Is it against the regs to just put a switch on the ADS-B encoder, or transponder, whatever? Need real stealth mode and you're not in Class C or B airspace? Flip.

Yeah, you'd lose the traffic avoidance features. But it seems mutually exclusive with the situations where you'd desire stealth.

Yep.

91.225
(f) Each person operating an aircraft equipped with ADS-B Out must operate this equipment in the transmit mode at all times.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk to specifically annoy:
Zane
Hammer

Same as a Mode C transponder. If its installed its gotta be on.

A1Skinner wrote:

TradeCraft wrote:

Zzz wrote:Is it against the regs to just put a switch on the ADS-B encoder, or transponder, whatever? Need real stealth mode and you're not in Class C or B airspace? Flip.

Yeah, you'd lose the traffic avoidance features. But it seems mutually exclusive with the situations where you'd desire stealth.

Yep.

91.225
(f) Each person operating an aircraft equipped with ADS-B Out must operate this equipment in the transmit mode at all times.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk to specifically annoy:
Zane
Hammer

Same as a Mode C transponder. If its installed its gotta be on.

So if it's "broken", pull the breaker and placard

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk to specifically annoy:
Zane
Hammer

TradeCraft wrote:

A1Skinner wrote:

TradeCraft wrote:

Zzz wrote:Is it against the regs to just put a switch on the ADS-B encoder, or transponder, whatever? Need real stealth mode and you're not in Class C or B airspace? Flip.

Yeah, you'd lose the traffic avoidance features. But it seems mutually exclusive with the situations where you'd desire stealth.

Yep.

91.225
(f) Each person operating an aircraft equipped with ADS-B Out must operate this equipment in the transmit mode at all times.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk to specifically annoy:
Zane
Hammer

Same as a Mode C transponder. If its installed its gotta be on.

So if it's "broken", pull the breaker and placard

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk to specifically annoy:
Zane
Hammer

Haha. I would never suggest such a thing... [emoji6]

Timberwolf wrote:No you can't double dip and install 1090 and 978

Hmm...how about another hypothetical. Have a certified 978 solution installed for US flying (STC, 337, TSO, anaomouse mode, the whole nine yards)...but do other, perhaps neighboring (or sub-neighboring as the latitudes get lower), countries really care about it being “installed”? And then just have a lunchbox 1090 solution for out-of-country flying.

Seems awfully expensive to go that route. Are you concerned about the "anonymous" mode? If so, you're SOL there too. It still sends out a code and the FAA can still track you. They were very elusive about this when I had my navworx in anonymous mode, but my SIL was off. I got a call from the FAA saying my stuff was jacked up. When I asked how they could see me in that mode, they just skated around the question and said I would have to talk to the manufacturer. You are only anonymous to other aircraft. Otherwise there's no reason to go with 978, outside the fact that it is generally the cheaper of the 2 solutions.

Are there any reasonably priced 1090 solutions?

I’m planning to install a 978 solution that doesn’t require me to replace anything that’s currently in my panel. This plus the cost of the unit makes it more affordable than the 1090 solutions I’ve seen but I might have missed a couple to compare with.

For those talking about “anonymous mode”, reading the instructions for my uAvionics SkyBeacon (yes, I know) they discuss how to set the unit up for anonymous mode, and then state that after January 1, 2020, it will be illegal to use anonymous mode.

I haven’t tried to find that in the refs, but if that is true, anonymous mode is essentially useless.

MTV

Correct about anonymous mode. It's (soon to be) dead.

There is a field in the standard that has your registration just like your transponder (and now your elt). This is the field that originally could be made anonymous.

It won't be in the near future.

There is a second field with a unique device ID associated and trackable with the vendor. The "authorities" can find you with that ID. It has never been anonymous.

The uavionics issue with a limited target stack is shared across pretty much any certified model I've tried. Feed them fake targets and real targets disappear. Feed them lots of the same target, all the real ones disappear at least intermittently. It's a cruddy implementation. And I don't know why people like the Garmin implementation better- they had similar issues.

I figured they would get better in the years since. Apparently, not so much.

Timberwolf wrote:No you can't double dip and install 1090 and 978

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/618688
The GDL series stuff from Garmin is dual band and lets you receive from both 978 and 1090. Yes it’s just for the ADSB-in portion of the equation, but pretty slick in what they provide.

akgreg wrote:

Timberwolf wrote:No you can't double dip and install 1090 and 978

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/618688
The GDL series stuff from Garmin is dual band and lets you receive from both 978 and 1090. Yes it’s just for the ADSB-in portion of the equation, but pretty slick in what they provide.

Most receivers do that. The good ones do anyways. We are talking about transmitting on both bands. Whole different animals.

A1Skinner wrote:Haha. I'll agree with you. For me it's more the using it for enforcement purposes that I really don't like. I'm sure it will come...

I'm sure that's a more realistic concern. OTOH, there are tons of violations on youtube every day and enforcement seems uncommon...

I've had Mode S for the entire time I've been flying, which makes my aircraft identifiable already. So I guess this part must not bother me much either.

The aircraft I am currently trying to finish has Garmin 225 Com and 327 Transponder. I have been researching the vaious ADSB out units applicable for experimental aircraft. I had also thought the easiest solution for me would be the uAivonics beacon. I looked at a few others including Garmin but for the almost non-excistant times that I would actually need ADSB, I hate to spend more than the cost of the uAivionics. They have the echoUAT also, but if one needs the GPS, the cost will be the same as the beacon.



The transponder can be hooked to the GDL 82 but as Timberwolf mentioned, this is only on the 978Mhz and not going to be legal outside of the US (eventually). Flying under BasicMed rules limits my cross border anyways so I guess it really isn't an issue.

lesuther wrote:Correct about anonymous mode. It's (soon to be) dead.

There is a field in the standard that has your registration just like your transponder (and now your elt). This is the field that originally could be made anonymous.

It won't be in the near future.

There is a second field with a unique device ID associated and trackable with the vendor. The "authorities" can find you with that ID. It has never been anonymous.

The uavionics issue with a limited target stack is shared across pretty much any certified model I've tried. Feed them fake targets and real targets disappear. Feed them lots of the same target, all the real ones disappear at least intermittently. It's a cruddy implementation. And I don't know why people like the Garmin implementation better- they had similar issues.

I figured they would get better in the years since. Apparently, not so much.

Is there any reference material to Anonymous Mode “Going Away”?

Reading the uAvionix manual I see that it states you can’t be squawking 1200 (thus putting out an anonymous code in the form of a randomized ICAO and a non-identifying call sign) and receive ATC services. I assume “ATC Services” to be anything dealing with ATC except talking to them in a class D. But that is how the rule has always been written.

Timberwolf wrote:

akgreg wrote:

Timberwolf wrote:No you can't double dip and install 1090 and 978

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/618688
The GDL series stuff from Garmin is dual band and lets you receive from both 978 and 1090. Yes it’s just for the ADSB-in portion of the equation, but pretty slick in what they provide.

Most receivers do that. The good ones do anyways. We are talking about transmitting on both bands. Whole different animals.

I realize that as I stated it was just for the “in” portion. Just providing additional info.

Fiddler wrote:Is there any reference material to Anonymous Mode “Going Away”?

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/med ... 20-165.pdf

If you use flight plans at all, it is going away. You will not be able to use an anonymous ICAO ID or blank call sign after the end of the year. In addition, your box must power up and broadcast all the info initially.

A1Skinner wrote:

TradeCraft wrote:

Zzz wrote:Is it against the regs to just put a switch on the ADS-B encoder, or transponder, whatever? Need real stealth mode and you're not in Class C or B airspace? Flip.

Yeah, you'd lose the traffic avoidance features. But it seems mutually exclusive with the situations where you'd desire stealth.

Yep.

91.225
(f) Each person operating an aircraft equipped with ADS-B Out must operate this equipment in the transmit mode at all times.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk to specifically annoy:
Zane
Hammer

Same as a Mode C transponder. If its installed its gotta be on.

It's not exactly the same as Mode C. Transponder/Mode C is only required to be on when operating in airspace that requires mode C or in all controlled airspace (91.215(c)), so it is perfectly legal to turn your transponder off in Class G (not including the rare class G above 10k and 2.5k AGL) airspace outside of a mode C veil.

fredy wrote:

A1Skinner wrote:

TradeCraft wrote:

Zzz wrote:Is it against the regs to just put a switch on the ADS-B encoder, or transponder, whatever? Need real stealth mode and you're not in Class C or B airspace? Flip.

Yeah, you'd lose the traffic avoidance features. But it seems mutually exclusive with the situations where you'd desire stealth.

Yep.

91.225
(f) Each person operating an aircraft equipped with ADS-B Out must operate this equipment in the transmit mode at all times.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk to specifically annoy:
Zane
Hammer

Same as a Mode C transponder. If its installed its gotta be on.

It's not exactly the same as Mode C. Transponder/Mode C is only required to be on when operating in airspace that requires mode C or in all controlled airspace (91.215(c)), so it is perfectly legal to turn your transponder off in Class G (not including the rare class G above 10k and 2.5k AGL) airspace outside of a mode C veil.

In Canada if its installed in the plane it must be on, regardless of airspace.

[/quote]In Canada if its installed in the plane it must be on, regardless of airspace.[/quote]

Same in the US. If installed, it must be on at all times in flight. Even in Golf airspace.

MTV

FWIW, I've had 1090 ADS-B Out for over 3 years. I have a KT74 ES transponder tied to a 430W as a position source. I have both frequencies In, using a Stratus 2 receiver. People get their panties in a twist over gummit watching, and maybe booglars watching, but let's face it, if you really think there's much privacy in today's world, you've been living next door to the shoe bomber. So instead of talking about loss of privacy that doesn't exist anyway, let's look at the benefits today.

With 1090, ATC can "see" me in areas that they never could, before. If I drop down to pattern altitude in the San Luis Valley, for instance, without ADS-B Out, I dropped off radar at about 11,000' MSL. Alamosa's pattern altitude is 8500'. ATC can still "see" me at that altitude! If I fly east, I used to have to stay above 9500' across Nebraska, to be seen on ATC's radar. Now, if I choose to, I can stay at 5500', and they'll still "see" me. So for all practical purposes, I can use flight following just about anywhere I will fly now, and I don't have to worry about ATC losing me.

I get traffic most of the time, also. Those that don't yet have ADS-B Out show up on my iPad Mini 4 as targets, but if they do have it, they show as targets with altitude and tail number. Just last week, I had an occasion to be happy with that, when my iPad announced "traffic at 12 o'clock, one mile, same altitude" at the same time that my transponder announced traffic, and both displays showed where he was--and a few seconds later I saw him there, as we both dodged each other.

With 978, I get weather most of where I fly, although not as low as I can be seen by ATC. But still, it's extremely beneficial. Having the METARs and other information right there, along with a graphic display, is a huge game changer from blindly flying along with not much information 100 miles down the route. Especially now that Flight Watch has been cratered, some of what we used to have is no longer available.

And of course, I can fly into any airspace in the country, without having to seek advance permission other than "cleared into Class B".

There are lots of benefits, once you get rid of the paranoia.

Cary