Wow, we sure managed to hijack this thread .

A few points, folks:

1) I didn't call the gentleman a name. I didn't reflect on his character. I said he was full of shit. I SHOULD have said he was full of shit on this particular subject. For all I know, he may well be the most knowledgeable individual ever to live...

2) An old saying: "Opinions are like assholes--we all have one, and the only one that doesn't stink is mine."

3) I'm pretty routinely told I'm full of shit my own self. On occasion, it is no doubt true. I suspect it's true of many of us....except of course, Mr. JJ Baker

I find it ironic that the thread that Mr. Oscar Deuce chose to hijack specifically describes the actions that AOPA is currently pursuing in an effort to address the unreasonable detentions and searches of general aviation aircraft conducted by CBP and DHS recently. The organization goes after these guys who are trampling the rights of GA pilots, and Oscar attacks the organization....??? I for one would renew my membership just based on that one effort.

Bighorn,
One of the very positive things that Craig Fuller has done with AOPA is working with EAA. That needed to happen, and the two organizations are working hand in hand on at least some initiatives. The days of those two organization's leaders treating each other like enemies is over, hopefully for good. Note that the driver's license petition is a joint AOPA/EAA initiative. That would never have happened with previous leadership in both AOPA and EAA. Good for the new leaders.

Finally.....the wine club? Really? Holy mackeral, folks, AOPA created the wine club, and It lasted about two months before overwhelming feedback from the membership caused AOPA to kill the wine club. What better evidence do you want that AOPA DOES actually listen to its members??

Okay, back to jet bashing.....

MTV

What MTV said.

Your first, second, fourth and tenth amendments to the Constitution of the United States are under attack. Amongst others. No need to elucidate the attacks here, perhaps another time. If you are a Progressive you probably think this is a good thing. If you're not you probably are loosing sleep over it. My problem is that the process' that are laid out in the Constitution for making change are being circumvented by the use of Administrative prerogative. Divide and conquer is perhaps the oldest principle in warfare. That's not a specious statement there; that's what's going on.

It is only the attack on the fourth that seems to draw sufficient outrage amongst all Americans. This is a good thing. Every little bit helps. I am a member of both AOPA and EAA and half a dozen type clubs. I also actively participate in the political process in a variety of other ways. I think we all should. On both sides of all the issues. Stay informed. It's the low information voter that gums up the works.

The other good thing happening is that amongst the targets of the Administrative State has been the Associated Press. Who was it that said; "Never pick a fight with anyone who buys their ink by the barrel"? One can't and I won't blame this all on one Commander in Chief or another. Since Eisenhower they are all guilty in one way or another. By any reasonable measure that makes each of us a contributor to the demise of our own freedoms. When will it be a step too far for you?

As far as MTV's use of language? Get over it. The great Physicists Richard Feynman and Neils Bohr used to tell each other that they were full of shit all the time. They were great friends. I''m full of shit too. The beginning of wisdom for me began when I first concluded that nobody cares what I think.

EB

+1 EB and MTV

My old billionaire boss from Beverly Hills (his incomes is about $75,000 a day 365 days a year) would tell me "you catch more flies with sugar than salt".

We used to drive around Southern California purchasing about $12,000,000 worth of properties each month to reinvest from interest on cash savings and bonds!

My point is self made successful people , I have found, are polite and are really caution of other's people feelings. They did NOT get what they want being an ass.

Ray Kroc is an exception! He fought with everyone but, I dislike eating at McDonalds anyway. He was married to my neighbor's sister. I did not like any of them much. Weird family.

mtv wrote:3) I'm pretty routinely told I'm full of shit my own self. On occasion, it is no doubt true. I suspect it's true of many of us....except of course, Mr. JJ Baker

Me myself and I get told the same thing and if that's the one and only thing we have in common, I can live with it.

Okay, back to jet bashing.....

MTV

Someone call Mr. Roush (sp) to help with that.
I think he's the one who has the most experience bashing jets around like plastic toys.

Mr. JJB

Emory Bored wrote:If you are a Progressive you probably think this is a good thing.

You will be happy to hear that statement is profoundly inaccurate.

1) I never did like the word Can't.......it's just not in my vocabulary
2) communication is good no matter what form it comes in....one just has to decipher what is really being said.

I like the pair up of AOPA and EAA but I think it could be taken much farther and effectively as well.
There are alot of different clubs out there and I would venture to say that less than half the people belong to either of the above organizations for numerous reason and then there is apathy ....... that's where I find myself at times. Right now I belong to a "Type" club that I can relate too but I can no longer say that I can relate to the above clubs. However I would send more money to my club if as a whole my club really would have a "voice" in what goes on.
My "club" president does not make a BIG bucks and most of his time is donated like most smaller clubs, however our dues go to worthy causes.......I'd just like to see a better "Bang for the Buck"

Hey MTV, next time say "I'm throwing the Bullshit Flag"....means the same as "You're Full of Shit"......BUT it's more politically correct and is widely accepted

Hope everyone has a good weekend and I hope the weather is nice where you live so you can get up in your plane

My impression on purposely offensive language (and actions) is it has always made a situation worse for me. I can never remember a time that it helped, it simply wasted time and prolonged a solution.

Believe me I know from experience big time. The "School of Hard Knocks" leaves a lasting impression on me. Sometimes best to hit the delete button and go outside and smell the roses ( or in Hawaii, grab a board and go surfing ).

rw2 wrote:

Emory Bored wrote:If you are a Progressive you probably think this is a good thing.

You will be happy to hear that statement is profoundly inaccurate.

That does make me happy in your case RW2. I was using the classical definition of "Progressive" so as to avoid the weirdly pejorative modern equivalent....the L word. If you read up on Woodrow Wilson (Americas first prominent progressive) for instance you will find that most of the academic work that he did prior to his 1912 run for POTUS was actively anti-Constitution. He very publicly endorsed it's abandonment in favor of some process that would speed things up. Then, oddly enough he likened the political process to that of Darwinian evolution. This following is typical of Wilson's thinking.

"Living political constitutions must be Darwinian in structure and in practice. Society is a living organism and must obey the laws of life, not of mechanics; it must develop. All the progressives ask or desire is permission—in an era when “development,” “evolution,” is the scientific word—to interpret the Constitution according to the Darwinian principle…."

I say "oddly enough" here because clearly he misunderstood Darwin's theory (gross change brought about accidentally over vast periods of time via incremental steps) or he was being disingenuous. As I said in my post, the current attack on the 4th amendment should have all of us, left and right VERY aroused. I'm glad you agree. The checks and balances of the original document are precisely what gives it "life". Without them I fear a Constitutional Republic will quickly head down a blind alley evolutionally. Nature kills her mistakes eh?

EB

Emory Bored wrote:

rw2 wrote:

Emory Bored wrote:If you are a Progressive you probably think this is a good thing.

You will be happy to hear that statement is profoundly inaccurate.

That does make me happy in your case rw2. I was using the classical definition of "Progressive" so as to avoid the weirdly pejorative modern equivalent....the L word.

Progressive is in common usage today. So I think you may have gotten a different set of baggage than you intended if you intended people to think of Wilson.

Progressives today believe that the government isn't inherently evil and that it does have a role to play in society to the benefit of the nation as a whole. But I can't recall ever meeting one that didn't use the constitution as the cornerstone of their positions.

rw2 wrote:Progressive is in common usage today. So I think you may have gotten a different set of baggage than you intended if you intended people to think of Wilson.

Progressives today believe that the government isn't inherently evil and that it does have a role to play in society to the benefit of the nation as a whole. But I can't recall ever meeting one that didn't use the constitution as the cornerstone of their positions.

Once again, here is the essence of my original post:

Emory Bored wrote: My problem is that the process' that are laid out in the Constitution for making change are being circumvented by the use of Administrative prerogative.

So we are in complete agreement. Sorry if I mixed up Liberal and Progressive.

Some more perspectives on this subject:

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/05/annals-of-the-security-state-even-more-airplane-stories/276239/

winger wrote:Your right MTV, We should support AOPA .
Your full of it ? So what.
Who cares about our little feelings ? There are huge threats to our freedom.
We're whining that the band missed a note when they had an hour to live.
The Titanic band played until the end.
USA Gumn't was founded for our rights, now all Gumn't effort is lies for power and control.
Too may pilots support nothing. Our procrastinating and disarray forfeits more time and rights.
Go ahead call me what you want. Misspell your rant Kick me in the leg, It doesn't matter.
We have to say something. Most of us don't care to be politically correct.
Throw it out there. Be yourself before the Gumn't Software edits your post.
What's the 4th of July mean ? Deviates / Homo's in our face every day on the news ?
That serves as another diversion to distract what's really happening. Corrupt gumn't loves it.
happy day

Winger, I appreciate your thoughts,Thanks