As I've stated before I really like Bearhawk but there is absolutely no way I can buy the quick build kit. I'm thinking about doing a mixed build: scratch building the fuselage and buying most of the other components. Back of the envelope numbers makes this look doable from a financial stand point.

I can buy the plans and start working on the fuselage. I'd buy pretty much all the other major components from Bearhawk Aircraft as I need them. This will allow me to keep my Luscombe till it comes time to buy the $7k wing kit and firewall forward, O-360.

The thing that concerns me most is the bought components not fitting the scratch built fuselage. I've read about a couple different builders who bought a motor mount but it didn't fit.

I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts. I think this is a good idea that will work well for me but I'm sure there are people on here that will be able to point out negatives that I haven't thought of.

In my opinion, it is quite doable. You are trading your time for $'s and there is nothing wrong with that. By the time you build a fuselage, you'll be skilled enough to make a purchased part fit if need be. I wouldn't let a thought like that stop you from building from scratch. If you are an EAA member, there are a lot of excellent videos on the web site dealing with many aspects of building. This is also an informative site: https://www.tinmantech.com/index.php

It took me 3.5 years to build one from a kit. I'd guess 100% scratch building would have taken me close to 10 years.

Consider purchasing a welded and unpainted fuselage. Then make the tail feathers, landing gear, seats, etc. That would give you a jump start at least. Buying the wings is a good idea, they are a work of art from the factory. Every once in a while, scratch projects come up for sale, too. Are you registered on the Bearhawk Scratch builders yahoo groups site? There is a lot of good information passing through there. Unfortunately, it gets clogged up, or at least it used to, with a bunch of other BS.

If you'd like, I can put you in touch with several scratch builders. I also have a friend who bought a fuselage kit and is building wings.

I'm still gonna put my BH plans into action one day....after the Stinson is up.

Sorry to be the Nitwit on the site.

Does the BearHawk represent a Maule M4/5 or a PA-20 modified? I have seen a couple BHs at Smiley Creek but the owners were not around for me to bend their ear. Looks interesting but I guess I need to get on a good web site & read up on the specifications of them (useful load, stall, cruise, & what wing they are using).

Whee - build away. Sweat equity will bring lots of pride.
We're all pullin for ya, & keep your stick on the ice.

byeBill

The Bearhawk represents neither a Maule M4/5 nor a PA-20 modified, really. It's a clean sheet design with more interior room. Useful load is running right around 1100 - 1200 lbs for those flying. Nice plane.
Tom

I have been scratch building a BH Patrol for several years. I have a pretty deep background in welding and fabrication so the steel parts are what I started with. I just finished with the dynafocal engine mount, 4 days of head down work but the factory gets 700 plus shipping for one and they have about 60 bucks worth of tubing in them. The BH designs are labor intensive even if you buy the quick build kit. The reward is obvious when you are done. Money is the deciding factor for me as I only have so much money for toys with one yougster still at home. In my opinion the factory wings are about as nicely built as one could ask for but pricey. Even if you build all the steel parts sooner or later you will need to fit the wings and get the wing fittings set accurately. Thats where I am in my project, all the welded components done and I have bought the rib package and getting the spars bent soon. I'm lucky as I have a friend who has an 8 ft brake and knows it well so looking forward to building spars. I lurk on the yahoo boards but really don't learn much from them. The yahoo 4 place BH board has scratch builders that post often but the Patrol board is not very active. I don't bother to post any build pics anymore for that reason, no one seems interested. I see more BH action on this board than anywhere else, that keeps me in the shop and keeps my eyes on the prize. Always cringe when I hear the BH compared to a Maule. cessnaford, you're on the internet, don't tell us you can't get good info on the BH's. Whee you have an advantage, you are flying a Luscombe so building while flying is a double edge sword, you build slower because you can fly but you will eventually have a great airplane.

I am scratch building a Bearhawk. I bought the project from someone else so I didn't start it but still have done a lot of work, hopefully flying this year, maybe. Sold my flying airplane to start this one, that definitely makes me work on it harder because I want something to fly, it's still a 5-6 year project for me with 2 kids at home and a full time job. I have found out with a project like this and paying cash for everything you either have more time than money or more money than time. It will be worth it in the end but it takes a long time and lots of patience. The key to finishing it is to keep it at home as long as you can, that way it you have a couple of minutes you can go out to the garage and tinker on it and always try to do something every day, even if its just planning your next step

All positive comments, that's great...where'd all the naysayers go?

I joined one of the bearhawk yahoo groups but I don't know which one. The way yahoo groups works drives me crazy so I haven't been on it much.

Buying the unpainted fuselage and building some of the other components is a good idea. I'll have to see how that works out financially. Only trouble with that is the entry cost it a lot more, but it may be worth it.

I'm partners with my dad on the Luscombe and he is all in for building a bearhawk. He just retired and is a little bored I think.

Honestly I don't fly much right now so I don't think it will slow down building very much. I like to fly with my family and that isn't possible with the Luscombe anymore. I get out about once a month is all.

We did the restoration of our Luscombe in my parents garage. That is where the BH project would take place.

Not throwing rocks at anybody else, but i don't have the stick-to-itness to complete a project of this scope. Even a quick built wkit would never get finished. But then again I'm lazy-- if your get up and go hasn't got up and went like mine did, maybe it'd be do-able for you.
I kinda like a flying project-- a fixer-upper that is purchased in flying shape, then upgraded as time & funds allow but flown in the meantime.

hotrod150 wrote:Not throwing rocks at anybody else, but i don't have the stick-to-itness to complete a project of this scope. Even a quick built wkit would never get finished. But then again I'm lazy-- if your get up and go hasn't got up and went like mine did, maybe it'd be do-able for you.
I kinda like a flying project-- a fixer-upper that is purchased in flying shape, then upgraded as time & funds allow but flown in the meantime.

I'm just like you Hotrod. I don't know why either because we both built a lot of buildings in our day. Oh well. Maybe we need a loud mouth fat assed foreman to keep us moving.

EB

hotrod150 wrote: I kinda like a flying project-- a fixer-upper that is purchased in flying shape, then upgraded as time & funds allow but flown in the meantime.

That's direction I was thinking of going with a maule. There are a few things I like about the BH over the maule but if I decide not to build I will be looking for a flying project maule.

Whee, I'm no naysayer and originally intended to build a Bearhawk. I did the contacts with the company and all the groups and even went the 1700 miles to Kissimmee, Florida to a Bearhawk build center but never realized the limitations of my own project dedication and time constraints until I visited several Bearhawks in different stages of being built. What I have to say applies not just to Bearhawks, but to every type at some point during every build: People are more candid in person and one on one than they will be on any board during their build, that goes double so after the build, when the flying fun starts. You don't get to see people pull their hair out on flying boards. And just so no one says the Chevy Ford thing, that goes for Tundras too. The Bearhawk by comparison is a very time intensive aircraft to build and that put it out of reach for me. That one resource was more than I could afford without high cost to personal life and business that comes with going deep in the clock. The reality check came for me while visiting someone else with a similar job and family time requirement as my own at the one third to half way point in the build. That is where dissatisfaction and frustration with build requirements peak and blunt honesty with yourself and the project takes over. Not to be the discouraging word here but take the time to hunt down these in-progress people before taking the plunge, to make sure your own time pockets are deep enough to make up for what you think you are saving on the money end. Get some road time and some real face time with in-progress builds.

Good advice there DS. I've tried to find some in progress BH projects in the area but I have not found any yet. I figure there has to be someone around here working on one. I'll keep looking and talking to people in my area.

I try to be honest with myself when it comes to these kinds of projects and I know if I don't see some progress I get frustrated. This is where my dad comes in and holds my feet to the fire. We have done several projects together and he is the one that keeps me going. I'm good when progress is being made but when things are slow, like body work on a car or stripping paint and polishing on the plane, I get frustrated. But I keep working anyways because if my old man is out in the garage working then I need to be right there with him. The thing that is different now is that I have my own family. I'm not going to be able to work on it every night or every Saturday. I've had a frank discussion with my pops and he knows I won't be working on it every time he is but I will be there as often as I can.

I think dirstrip really hit the nail on the head. I've had an uncle and a good friend build planes and occasionally got my hands dirty giving them a hand. I feel the time factor is just too much for anyone with a real job, and anyone with wife and kids. And my friend who built the Murphy rebel was at his wits end when he finally got the project done, even hired an A&P to help him finish it out. There was no $ saved in the end, even with time being worth nothing. The other thing most builders don't consider is the $ they will spend on tools. Breaks, welders, torches, rivet guns, grinders, drill presses, metal chop saws, band saws, and the list never ends. You don't build an airplane with a 20 piece tool set. You also need the metal working skill - particularly welding and bending, to do it right, or you end up hiring that out. If you don't have the skill set already you end up with on the job training and that takes time and money also. No doubt very rewarding for the small percentage of builders that take to the air with their creation. But very frustrating for those that put years into a project and never have the time to see it all the way through. Dirtstrip is right, seek out and talk to some builders who have spent every spare minute for the last 3 years on their project and are still 90% done with 90% to go. I admire those who do it - I've seen the sacrifice it takes.

Whee,

This is the yahoo group most scratch builders use:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bearhawk/

And this is the one most kit builders use:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bearhawkqbkit/

and of course many use both groups.

Reading the naysayer posts above makes me laugh and the reason is that there are many people who actually enjoy the building process. After all, it is cool to be able to acquire tools and use them to make stuff. Thank goodness for that skill or we'd all still be living in caves.

And as far as tooling goes, the Bearhawk is an easy build with mostly hand tools. Since it is a 4-place aircraft, yes it is a bigger project than most 2-seaters, so there is more to do. None of it is all that difficult, there is just a lot of it.

Blackrock:

Thanks for the heads up on the BH qb group. Been lurking on the scratch build group, but age, hangar project, to be followed by house project preclude scratch building. Parked my Zodiac 601 XLB/Corvair 2850 next to Bob B at OSH in 2011. As he's a friend of William Wynne the Corvair guru, whom I represent on the West Coast, I got to meet and chat with him a bit. Both man and airplane are the "real deal."

Woody

Thanks for everyone that has responded so far. Skills and tools are not a problem. Mostly concerned about the time.

I really enjoyed restoring on my Luscombe so I think I'd really enjoy the build process and the experimental world.

VCBZenith wrote:Parked my Zodiac 601 XLB/Corvair 2850 next to Bob B at OSH in 2011. As he's a friend of William Wynne the Corvair guru...

Now that's real interesting. I've got a set of LSA plans and thinking of hanging a Corvair on it. That's a long way down the road, but I'll have to ask Bob his thoughts on that. Not surprising that they would be friends. They both have generally the same outlook on aircraft engineering.

VCBZenith wrote:Blackrock:

Thanks for the heads up on the BH qb group. Been lurking on the scratch build group, but age, hangar project, to be followed by house project preclude scratch building. Parked my Zodiac 601 XLB/Corvair 2850 next to Bob B at OSH in 2011. As he's a friend of William Wynne the Corvair guru, whom I represent on the West Coast, I got to meet and chat with him a bit. Both man and airplane are the "real deal."

Woody

Woody,

It is indeed a small world; I remember seeing your plane at Oshkosh, I think it is the very nice yellow 601 in this photo? The Corvair engines have always intrigued me.



I'm parked 1 row behind you; you can just see my nose behind Bob's rudder in the above photo and a close up below.



That was my first and only time attending Oshkosh. It was a thrill to be there and we had a great time.

Whee,

I just sent you a PM with a friends phone number...