Not to point fingers, but it seems a lot of folks who post on these forums post a beef about a product, yet when asked if theyve contacted the manufacturer of the item, you get blank stare (virtual reality stare).

If you have a beef with a product, your FIRST communication SHOULD be to that manufacturer. Not to post a really critical post on a web forum, allegedly asking for “feedback” on that product.

That’s bullshit, folks. You should at least have the common courtesy to contact the manufacturer FIRST with a beef. If they blow you off, so be it.....post ahoy! Post everywhere.

But there aren’t that many companies that make stuff for aviation, let alone this little fraction of aviation. Let’s be fair to the folks who make our toys and at the very least, allow them the opportunity to make things right BEFORE we go ballistic on them on the inter net.

Finally, it’s worthy of noting that SOME of these outfits actually sponsor this forum. So before you piss in their coffee cup, give em a chance to make things right FIRST.

Sermon over, back to your regular programming.

MTV

Agree. Well said.

From another thread here there was a question posed to fellow aircraft owners and pilots: "What is your opinion? Do you have same or similar experiences?"

That was a simple question. It asks if the problem the OP has is unique to them or common to some degree in the experience of others. Nothing more. How else would he gather that info? The manufacturer may or may not acknowledge that a problem exists with their product, or that Instructions for Continued Airworthiness applied per their STC should be rigorously followed or the problem may or will occur.

According to that thread the OP did then contact the manufacturer but the conversation was private. That's their business and hopefully at least an explanation will be offered. But at least he had some additional use experience (good or bad) from others available to hopefully conduct a meaningful conversation.

Gary

My strategy is usually to conduct the complaint in private first, but if someone else has their own style, that’s them. Each Internet forum has its rules also.

So we have a complaint aired publicly by a consumer looking for validation, on a forum where it has been allowed to evolve on a thread. Some have defended the manufacturer, and some have vented similar frustrations. The manufacturer is under no pressure or obligation, they have options though. Do nothing, do something privately, or even log in and make a public statement.

I can say that two major engine monitor manufacturers regularly log onto another site that I visit. There are other manufacturers that log onto a third site, engines and accessory providers, avionics manufacturers, and installers. It’s very informative, and they receive positive response from forum participants for their candour.

I have to agree Mike, but will add that I would guess most of us are guilty of doing it at one time or another. I'm thinking we don't mean any I'll will, just bummed (or really pissed off) about spendy hard earnedoney for a product that ends up not meeting our expectations. Some of us learn with age that bitching does no good unless it is done after contact with the manufacturer doesn't resolve the issue.
Just make sure your ducks are in a row before you condemn the source.

The thread on tires just reminded me of this, which I'd intended to post before, but in his case, he did get in touch with them soon.

I'm just kind of baffled by people coming on these forums with complaints about a product, and when asked if they've talked to the manufacturer about same, they respond no.

My point is, if you have a defective product, it make sense to me to talk to the manufacturer FIRST. Give them a chance to fix and/or explain the problem. If they blow you off, THEN it's certainly appropriate to let others know about poor service or materials.

That's all, and none of this stuff constitutes a felony or anything.

But, if you have what you believe is a faulty product, I think you're more likely to get a warranty claim done with the original manufacturer.

FWIW

MTV

Everyone deserves a chance as I see it.

I've been pleasantly surprised on a few occasions how supportive the seller/supplier/retailer can be if given a chance. Case in point, I recent purchased what appeared to be a "gently" used firearm with attached scope. After significant effort expended zeroing the scope with no luck I reached out to the manufacturer; they happily replaced it, no questions asked and I wasn't even the original purchaser.

I will buy their product exclusively from here on in.

Cheers,

Actual concern for others and the attitude that the customer will be treated as if he or she were always right should not surprise us. Our country became a world power and defender of democracy based partly on those principles.

I like the sentiment, Mike. It's too easy to start rumors in the age of the internet, especially where there might be an exception or extenuating circumstances.

And I totally understand the need to commiserate with your peers, maybe just to get a head check.

The fact that we have generous sponsors muddies the waters indeed; they should be respected. But by the same token they are bound by a duty to the consumer, and they are as welcome to participate in these forums as any of us little guys to gather info, offer guidance, or defend themselves. It takes a pretty egregious offender for me to crack down on that.

However, we should all consider that it's a group effort to keep this website alive, a part of which is our ad partners like Airframes. They should be shown a little respect.

Everything in moderation.

Reading this jogged my memory. I ordered new brake linings from Airframes Alaska. I didn't know the part numbers. It didn't matter, they fixed me up real good! Good company!

I have had 2 incidents with airplane people who were Fing liars and pieces of crap. Thankfully, most of the airplane people I have dealt with are great.

Beware! there are bad people out there.

But, let's be clear! It is not a crime to ask for a review of a product before we spend major bucks. I personally want the best value for my money. If 9 out of 10 pilots give a product a good review , that's 90%
If a manufacturer can't stand up to a quality evaluation from their customers, then they need to hire a quality engineer... As a customer I want 100% quality in all the products I buy with my hard earned cash. I seldom get that, but it's the goal. And should be the manufacturerso goal also!

My .02

Reviewing a product pros & cons is one thing; slagging a product, supplier or vendor without giving them a fair opportunity to resolve your concerns is a whole different kind of approach to an issue. As the old saying goes, you get more flies with honey then vinegar !!!

And, just to clarify, I didn't mean to suggest that any of this constitutes a felony or anything.

My point was that the manufacturer is first of all probably the best source of information on their product, and secondly, they should also be the most motivated to fix your problem.

It just seems to me that we tend to waste a fair bit of band width asking questions that would be better directed to the manufacturer.

Of course, there are always exceptions......

MTV

MTV has a good point and Airframes is a good company. But for someone like the OP in the thread we referenced starting an informal discovery process may be a benefit for them, especially if they're in a location with limited numbers of similarly equipped aircraft . I assume the OP wanted to see what range of issues others have experienced and then discuss them with the manufacturer. Hopefully from that both can benefit going forward.

When they first came out with their ICA for the Airstreak and Bushwheel they failed to include air pressure recommendations for my 26" Airstreaks in the ICA. I spoke with them and they added a later correction. That was a positive exchange.

Gary

Good discussion on dealing with problems. I’m in agreement that we should go to the supplier first. Sometimes the manufacturers are more willing to help if they know more than one customer is unhappy. Knowing they monitor these forums I feel negative and positive discussion is good. I reviewed my email correspondence from 5 years ago on my tire problems and realized I received no help or sympathy. Now I feel I should have been far more vocal on the forms. To late now but it still stings, MTV is right it not a felony.
Thanks , Jess

Products get reviewed, if you disagree, politely express your opinion. Railroading others (like accusing them of bitching) for not agreeing with you is not the way to have a civil, nor productive, conversation. You say your not pointing fingers MTV, but it sure doesn't come across that way when I read your post.

Skalywag wrote:Products get reviewed, if you disagree, politely express your opinion. Railroading others (like accusing them of bitching) for not agreeing with you is not the way to have a civil, nor productive, conversation. You say your not pointing fingers MTV, but it sure doesn't come across that way when I read your post.

Yes, products get reviewed. So what? What I was discussing was coming onto a web forum with a “problem” with a product, without first contacting the manufacturer to TRY to resolve the issue.

If the manufacturer/distributor blows you off, lock and load, and THEN write an honest review, INCLUDING the fact that the manufacturer/distributor was not responsive.

My point is, when I see one of these “my widget didn’t do what it was advertised to do”, the first thing that goes through my mind is a question: Did this person make any effort to get the widget fixed by the outfit they bought it from? And if not, why not? Somehow, they think that outfit is going to be more likely to fix the “ problem” after they’ve been beaten up on the Internet over a problem they may not even KNOW about yet? Really?

So, what do you expect to gain by posting a problem before contacting the source?

I’ve had a few issues over the years with “stuff” from aviation suppliers. I bought a brand new gyro horizon from a vendor. It rolled over and died within a couple weeks. I contacted the vendor (a well known outfit) and they said that warranty claims had to be run through the manufacturer. I called them, and they asked for serial number of the instrument. I told them, and they said that instrument had sat on the vendors shelf beyond the warranty date. They said they’d deal with it. Two days later, I had a brand new instrument AND a $100 gift certificate from the vendor with a sincere letter of apology, and instructions on forwarding the re installation bill to them.

Point is, I could have bitched about a brand new instrument failing, while in fact, everybody involved was seriously motivated to FIX the problem. I could have wasted time whining about it on a forum, but would that have got the problem fixed faster? Hardly.

FWIW. I call it “Professionalism”. Novel concept? I hope not.

MTV

The post in question: nobody bitched (unlike this thread), nobody griped (unlike this thread) and nobody complained (unlike this thread)

It was a simple and honest question asking if others had experienced similar issues or not in order to gain perspective.
He didn't bash a vendor, he didn't say the product was crap. He simply wanted to see if others had similar issues.

The only one really complaining about it is you, MTV.

MTV, I want to clarify that I mean no disrespect to you. I value your input, and have benefited from a fair amount of the information you have posted here based on your experience, much appreciated. On this particular point, I disagree.

In fact, I think it is counter productive to accuse anyone publicly on here of bitching, that is a fairly subjective accusation, which is best left to private discussion IMO.

Alaska Airframes/ABW are great to work with, and in my experience, have always exhibited nothing short of excellent customer service!

Bagarre wrote:The post in question: nobody bitched (unlike this thread), nobody griped (unlike this thread) and nobody complained (unlike this thread)

It was a simple and honest question asking if others had experienced similar issues or not in order to gain perspective.
He didn't bash a vendor, he didn't say the product was crap. He simply wanted to see if others had similar issues.

The only one really complaining about it is you, MTV.

Okay, you win, I’m the only one who thinks contacting a manufacturer about a problem with their product makes sense.

And the post you refer to really wasn’t the one that got me started on this. That started a long time ago.

But, if the Foo shits, feel free to wear it.

But, obviously you’re right.....post away.

MTV