I heard second hand from a pretty dependable source that this was a hand propping incident.

http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/20 ... /12896947/

Eerily similar to this: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RDIiMJn9xuo

Hand propping with a wide open throttle with a zero experience occupant in the plane is a really big screw up that is hard to excuse.

Scolopax wrote:I heard second hand from a pretty dependable source that this was a hand propping incident.

http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/20 ... /12896947/

Eerily similar to this: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RDIiMJn9xuo

Hand propping with a wide open throttle with a zero experience occupant in the plane is a really big screw up that is hard to excuse.

I've hand-propped a number of different airplanes over the years, but always with an experienced pilot at the controls. I can't imagine doing it with an inexperienced person sitting there, although I suppose in a perceived emergency, if I trained him/her first, it could be done. As risky as any hand-propping is, though, minimizing the risk as much as possible is essential.

When Fort Collins Downtown was still open, one of my hangar neighbors regularly hand-propped his airplane, an aerobatic model (don't recall what), by himself. He tied the tail to the corner of the hangar with some sort of slip knot, which he could untie from the cockpit. He would start the airplane, get in, then pull the rope loose, leaving the rope at the hangar.

Cary

What are the cuts on the wing from? Was the other empty plane sitting there running?

From those cuts, it looks to me like the Cherokee was the runaway and the 170 was the innocent bystander. It's hard to believe the degree of damage on that poor old 170!

A1Skinner wrote:What are the cuts on the wing from? Was the other empty plane sitting there running?

It looks to me like the running airplane was the Cherokee and the Cessna was sitting there.

Edit: HOLY CRAP Scolopax! That is a heck of a video on the 170...!!! Gives me the willies, big time!!

CapnMike wrote:

A1Skinner wrote:What are the cuts on the wing from? Was the other empty plane sitting there running?

It looks to me like the running airplane was the Cherokee and the Cessna was sitting there.

That makes sense. I never sceolled through the pics and just assumed the 170 was the plane running...

A1Skinner wrote:What are the cuts on the wing from? Was the other empty plane sitting there running?

That's what I was thinking, too. The Cherokee had to be the run-away. Such a shame about the 170...

There's still a lot of folk out there who have airplanes that have to be hand-propped. Another skill to be taught, learned, and become proficient with. It shouldn't be risky or an emergency for pilots with airplanes at that end of the spectrum.

Though methinks common sense says those who have never been taught, or those who put their dogs at the controls while swinging blades, should probably just admit they're stuck and call AAA.

Gump

the 170 was parked.

The good news is that it is now on the road to recovery:
http://www.cessna170.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11719

daedaluscan wrote:the 170 was parked.

The good news is that it is now on the road to recovery:
http://www.cessna170.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11719

You have to be a member to view that.

daedaluscan wrote:the 170 was parked.

The good news is that it is now on the road to recovery:
http://www.cessna170.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11719

Ya can you copy and paste so we can see the prognosis?

daedaluscan wrote:the 170 was parked.
The good news is that it is now on the road to recovery:
http://www.cessna170.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11719

Like I've always said, you just can't keep a good data plate down!

GumpAir wrote:There's still a lot of folk out there who have airplanes that have to be hand-propped. Another skill to be taught, learned, and become proficient with. It shouldn't be risky or an emergency for pilots with airplanes at that end of the spectrum.

Though methinks common sense says those who have never been taught, or those who put their dogs at the controls while swinging blades, should probably just admit they're stuck and call AAA.

Gump

First time I ever hand-propped was just this last summer with my dad (ASEL pilot in training, experienced rotorcraft pilot) at the controls. We went through a pretty thorough brief, practiced which way to move the throttle in case I had set it too far forward, and triple checked the brakes were held before I pulled the prop through. Dang dead battery caused it.

Ended up being a non-issue and started on the 2nd or 3rd pull, I think. Better to be over-cautious than under cautious I guess.

There are just a few things to keep in mind when hand propping. Having the throttle set at idle, not wide open is right up there at the top of the list.

Started my 170 by hand a number of times. It never scared me, just need to be focused on the process and aware of what can go wrong. I am a little intimidated by the 88" prop and high nose of my 180. I need to hand start it one of these days just to be prepared if I ever need to do it in The field.

The dude hand propping in this vid probably doesn't fly the camel because his gonads won't fit in the cockpit.

Sigh......

I get tired of hearing all the internet experts pontificating about how you always need a "qualified pilot" at the controls while hand propping, and/or the tail needs to be tied down, with some sort of magic knot......etc.

This is one more of those subjects, like use of the rudder, that we just aren't teaching pilots these days. And, every pilot should learn how to SAFELY hand prop an airplane.

What do you do if you're by yourself? Qualified pilot at the controls? Sure, spend a few nights out there in some bug infested swamp, waiting for that "qualified pilot" to magically arrive to assist.

What do you do out on a concrete ramp, or, as in my hangar, where there simply is NO place to tie your tail off to?

How about we all just learn how to safely hand start an airplane instead? The vast majority of these accidents involve someone who's never propped an airplane before. And, that is NOT a good time to learn how. The result is often ugly.

Further, watch a bunch of pilots start their engines with the starter some time.....R,R,R,R,R,R, etc....Just as the battery is about to die, the poor engine has gotten rid of enough of that flooded start to actually fire.

Ummmm, if you don't know how to start your engine with the starter:

a) One of these days, you're going to HAVE to hand prop the thing, and

b) If you don't know how to start with the starter, your arm is gonna get really sore trying to hand prop.

Here are the "rules":

1) Learn to start your engine, efficiently. If you aren't getting quick starts regularly, get someone to show you how it's done. Most engines start different when hot, compared to when cold....learn both.
2) I prefer to prop from behind. If I slip, I do NOT want to be in front of or under that spinning propeller. This also comes from many hours in seaplanes, the first one of which I owned didn't have an electrical system. If you're propping a seaplane, there are very few of you who can prop from in front.....Propping from behind gives you something to hang onto, to help maintain your balance, and gives you better access to the controls. I've always been stunned at Oshkosh to see the vintage guys showing people how to prop an airplane....from out front.....dumb. Don't do it.
3) If you have a passenger, tell them that under NO circumstances are they to touch the controls. I can almost guarantee that they'll do exactly the wrong thing if they do try to "help".
4) Get someone who knows how to hand prop to show you how it's done. Practice it. Move to a different airplane type? Learn to prop it, before you need to.
5) Tie the tail down if you can, but trust me, there's a lot of places where there simply is no practical place to tie the tail.....so:
6) ALWAYS ensure the throttle is set VERY near idle prior to turning that prop through.
7) Mixture set to idle cutoff, after you've primed the engine. If it tries to run off, it won't get far. As soon as it catches, push the mixture to full rich. Don't try this from out front....running past that spinning meat cleaver can be a career ending experience. Another argument for propping from behind.
Did I mention to get someone to show you how to SAFELY do this? This is another of those things that you should NOT learn from the internet.

Oh, yeah, I propped my airplane twice yesterday.....it doesn't have an electrical system....VERY unsafe, of course.....
MTV

Very good lesson, MTV. Well said.

GumpAir wrote:There's still a lot of folk out there who have airplanes that have to be hand-propped. Another skill to be taught, learned, and become proficient with. It shouldn't be risky or an emergency for pilots with airplanes at that end of the spectrum.

Though methinks common sense says those who have never been taught, or those who put their dogs at the controls while swinging blades, should probably just admit they're stuck and call AAA.

Gump

I have no idea what Gump talking about


Tim

I bet I can role up barb wire faster than anybody else on this forum.


Only took three hours with the files.

Tim

I watched a guy I know prop his Ponk'd 182 a while back. Put his non-pilot femail passenger in the pilots seat to hold the brakes, but no briefing on the throttle mag switch or anything else. He had the throttle cobbed in there pretty good, so when it started it really roared to life but she just sat there. Luckily the jump door on the RH side was open so I jumped up on the boarding step, reached in, and pulled it back to idle real quick. If she'd slacked off on the brakes or if it had jumped the chocks, she'd have been off for a wild ride.

Scolopax wrote:.......... I am a little intimidated by the 88" prop and high nose of my 180. I need to hand start it one of these days just to be prepared if I ever need to do it in The field.......

I'm no hand-propping expert but I have done it a number of times. It's a little different deal with the C180 than with a Champ or T-Craft, or even my C150/150TD. The prop seems to come up on compression in three different positions, only one of which is comfortable for me to swing it through (with the blade at about 8 oclock ). When it didn't catch, I had my helper turn the mags off while I rotated it into that sweet spot again.