Well, I jumped off the bridge in the last 2 days. Now I just need to find out if I can swim.

I pulled the old “almost” original panel out to eliminate the cracked plastic, redesign the shock mounted portion and to dress. Up and modernize the lower section. The top is not a big deal for me. Make a template, preferably one you can see thru, locate new instruments using stick-on circles and start cutting the metal to size. The Cessna dealer here wants to use me for “practice” on their new CNC machine. Alrighty then!

Now to the dilemma...I was assuming after removing the lower back plastic that I would cut a piece of, oh, probably .063 aluminum sheet and cut it to the shape of what the black plastic covered. I thought that’s what people were doing. I’ve attached a pic from the owner of a 180 that appealed to me and that I’m working toward. Until yesterday I had assumed he had also made a plastic replacement overlay for the lower section. On closer examination of the photo it looks like nothing has been done to the lower section other than add the two carbon fiber looking sections. More urgently I started stressing about how, if I used an overlay, I would match up the circuit breaker and switch holes from the outside...a giant hole finder tool that I would probably have to make?

Additionally, if you look at the far right glove box/radio opening you’ll see it is “plugged” with a metal cover from the factory. The only problem is, it stands about 1/8” higher than the surround face. Is it necessary to drill it out and flush it up or just use a spacer to the left of it if I’m going to cover the right half with a single plate anyway?

Anyone been through this process who can offer some advice or ideas? I’d like to keep all the old circuit breaker and switch locations, just replace with new.

I probably wouldn't have ever attempted this job without the support of everyone here. MANY THANKS! My wife is out of the country for 3 weeks so this is my chance to really make some progress. All cables get pulled out today. Large hands are really a liability behind the panel!

Are you sure the plug is from the factory? Personally I'd take it out since it serves no purpose if there's not an instrument there. Also, why not leave the "mid" panel (switches, CB's) a separate section from the real "lower panel" (where the large cutouts and go-fast-knobs are)? That way you could leave the panel bare there and just mount the switches/CB's in their structural holes if you like their location.

Personally, I would mount all the CB's in a nice grid in one of the large rectangular lower cutouts on the right. You can see most of my CB's were done that way, with a few stragglers under the switches for some reason. My 180 was a '57 with the same behind-panel structure. I also liked having multiple small lower panel sections (3) because you could easily pull one to access things or add another CB for example without dealing with the whole mess.



-asa

Wow...thanks for the quick response asa...

Your ideas are good! It’s hard to believe you got that radio stack in there. I’ll have to look again with that it mind. You do have a beautiful panel. It’s in my digital “pile” of panel photos but I’m not sure where I found it.

Wiring...I suppose there’s new wiring throughout behind your panel, right? I look at all those old wires and get weak in the knees! I’m pretty good at figuring things out (and I will have wiring help) but I’d like for this not to be more than a. 2-3 month project.

And...any problems building the radio stack rack with regard to strength and support? I assume your panels no longer shock mounted. ??

I’d love to see more behinds the scenes pics if you want to share. Just PM me for my Email.

You really got me thinking...many thanks!

BirdyinBOI wrote:Wow...thanks for the quick response asa...

Your ideas are good! It’s hard to believe you got that radio stack in there. I’ll have to look again with that it mind. You do have a beautiful panel. It’s in my digital “pile” of panel photos but I’m not sure where I found it.

Wiring...I suppose there’s new wiring throughout behind your panel, right? I look at all those old wires and get weak in the knees! I’m pretty good at figuring things out (and I will have wiring help) but I’d like for this not to be more than a. 2-3 month project.

And...any problems building the radio stack rack with regard to strength and support? I assume your panels no longer shock mounted. ??

I’d love to see more behinds the scenes pics if you want to share. Just PM me for my Email.

You really got me thinking...many thanks!

I actually sold my 180 last year unfortunately, and the previous owner was the mastermind of the panel so I can't claim that. The wiring was indeed redone by the previous owner in 2005 when he did the panel and interior. There are a few field approvals at the same time for things like the fuel level sensor and a couple other instruments I believe. I do not have pics behind the panel.

Remember that the 496 at the bottom of the stack is not very deep so it doesn't interfere with the yoke stuff back there. The other avionics are braced to make sure they don't sag in the back because the bottom is pretty close to the T yoke. I really liked this setup. A 430 or 650 replacing the VOR, DME, and comm would've slimmed up the stack and made it even nicer.

If you're wanting the traditionl 6-pack flight instruments, don't settle for less than optimal layout. Mine is proof that a 6 pack fits in an early 180 panel if you want it.

A couple more detail pics I have on my computer...

-asa

Asa, how did you brace the stack? Just a strap up to the boot cowl?

The notion of a separate panel for electrical is a good one; I'm doing the same, using a single piece over the lower left two holes with all power coming into there. This will greatly clean up the rest of the panel. I'm taking things a step further and installing Molex quick-connects between that panel and everything else; same with the avionics/instrument panel up top. The idea being if we need to get into the guts later on, we can easily access any or all of it without having to do any major disassembly save some things that can just be disconnected rapidly. The connectors add a little time and a couple extra steps to the process, but I think this will pay off big later when I do future mods or have to troubleshoot a glitch.

Thanks asa...great pics, great info. So...is the panel shock mounted? I see a couple places where you could put 2 or 3 in. One right of the original suction gauge and one in the original starter location.

All the aluminum boxes along the bottom came out, right? And no, that plug is not original but geez...I’m having all kinds of trouble getting the screws from the inner flange out on each side. Previous owner had a 3 1/8” G-meter installed there. (Ex Korean War fighter pilot). The AI was the ball!

Your panel is much more complex than I need but the layout is really nice. I wish I had the “wiring gene”. Maybe I’ll inherit it by the time I’m finished.

I always said my panel was about 1.5 generations old. A EDM900 would eliminate all gauges to the right of the radios. A GNS430 or 650 would replace the entire center stack. That being said, it had everything and everything worked.

Always planned to remove the ADF but never got around to it.

And colopilot, that is correct about the radios.

-asa

BirdyinBOI wrote: ...I’ve attached a pic from the owner of a 180 that appealed to me and that I’m working toward. Until yesterday I had assumed he had also made a plastic replacement overlay for the lower section. On closer examination of the photo it looks like nothing has been done to the lower section other than add the two carbon fiber looking sections.
!

Funny to see my handy work show up here a few years after I sold that 180!! I used to own that particular 180 and did the panel work as part of an interior refurb.

The lower section is simply two pieces of aluminum sheet cut to cover the two "radio holes" on either side. On the left side, it functions basically as a surround for the com and transponder...the only other things mounted there were the obvious vacuum gauge...mic jacks and a split master switch are just out of view on the left. The right side is fairly obvious with some CB's and such. The carbon fiber is just a look-a-like sticker that 3M makes available on eBay. I think I made those from .032 sheet.

In the center you might notice where I mounted my intercom in place of the ashtray. I also added the co-pilot PTT switch, which is a pretty good spot I think....easy to use right above the engine controls in case you ever fly from the right seat.

I was going for a more utility setup and got rid of any plastic overlays on the panel.

The instrument panel is actually an .032, well, let's call it a doubler, riveted to the original panel. Doing it this way allowed me to cover up some of the blemishes and hacks on the original panel and allowed me to cover some instrument holes that I didn't need, while adding some that I did. Also, I made it a tad oversize in some places to help cover up the gap that would be apparent since the plastic overlay was being omitted. Originally I was using this doubler as a kind of template to get everything in the right spot, but it ended up looking pretty decent, so I just had it powder coated and ran it! At this point in the refurb, I was getting pretty antsy to get her back flying and this proved the best option for that.

I added some pics of the panel work in my gallery.

In case you haven't seen this yet...
https://backcountrypilot.org/features/category/featured-bush-planes/rejuvenation

I'm sure by now you're starting to realize the size and significance of the rabbit hole in which you've just stepped. Hopefully your focus is sharp and determination is strong, unlike mine, which ended up costing me much more than a few weeks of downtime! Honestly, though, it was a great learning experience and I'm glad I did it. Now if I can just keep from stepping in it again!

Hey there...thanks a lot Bart! Well,I have dozens of panel pics I poached off Internet. I wrote to the guy you sold to down in Redlands. He sent me one other interior pic. Say, is that a Selkirk flap tunnel? Looks like the original trim tab wheel cover.

I couldn’t use the original panel as the previous owner cut it out for a LORAN installation back in the ‘80’s. I’ll post a pick. I would have liked to leave the original plastic on the lower section but there were just too many cracked places and the far right bay had been cut out and a 3 1/8 G- meter installed. I decided I didn’t need to know how hard my landings were. After seeing your painted lower section I decided it was perfect for my needs. The CF look is nice against the grey. My panel will be beige as that is the upholstery colors the plane came with. The lower panels will be black but I may paint the center engine control section to match the upper. My ashtray was transformed into a mount for a poor man’s home-made audio panel. I won’t need one and I’ll put the intercom there like you did. Also having the control horns powder coated black. There's no shortage of instrument space if you count the bays at the bottom. I’m using .090 for the panel and probably .040 for the hole covers below. Funny...I just measured for those this afternoon. Do you remember the brand of those CB’s? The guy I’m getting my carpet from wasn’t sure where to find the heels pads in that size you have. ?

I’m glad you found your panel! PM me for my Email.

You're quick to reply...I added a couple edits to my previous post.

BirdyinBOI wrote:..Say, is that a Selkirk flap tunnel? Looks like the original trim tab wheel cover.

Yes, and yes. Trim off the flat parts on the bottom of the tunnel cover for a cleaner look.

BirdyinBOI wrote:I couldn’t use the original panel as the previous owner cut it out for a LORAN installation...

Any chance you'd sell the original to me? I am wanting to maybe step down that rabbit hole again but want to do things a little different this time!

BirdyinBOI wrote:Funny...I just measured for those this afternoon. Do you remember the brand of those CB’s? The guy I’m getting my carpet from wasn’t sure where to find the heels pads in that size you have. ?

I’m glad you found your panel! PM me for my Email.

The CB's were the Tyco brand...CB's and CB switches. I bought the carpet kit from Airtex...heel pads were included.

Hah! I’d seen that Rejuvenation thread but had no idea it was you. I don’t have it in me any longer (almost 69) to do that kind of job...I wanna fly too much and my wife doesn’t have the patience to go through a project like that.

But you created a masterpiece! I picked a great one to emulate!

I don't have any current pictures of my panel, but this picture shows some of what I did.



The upper sections are cut from .090 aluminum, and the lower switch panels are .032 aluminum. I attached the aluminum with a few screws and back drilled the CB and switch holes for a lot of them. They were too random and disorderly in placement for my taste, so some of the holes are new to achieve uniform spacing.

A split plate for the throttle/prop/mixture cables seemed like a good idea. Its nice to have the ability to get those cables out of the way for work behind the panel without disconnecting and pulling them through the firewall.

So are you guys keeping shock mounts in the pilot side panels or just hard mounting them?

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

bart wrote:

BirdyinBOI wrote: ...I’ve attached a pic from the owner of a 180 that appealed to me and that I’m working toward. Until yesterday I had assumed he had also made a plastic replacement overlay for the lower section. On closer examination of the photo it looks like nothing has been done to the lower section other than add the two carbon fiber looking sections.
!

Funny to see my handy work show up here a few years after I sold that 180!! I used to own that particular 180 and did the panel work as part of an interior refurb.

The lower section is simply two pieces of aluminum sheet cut to cover the two "radio holes" on either side. On the left side, it functions basically as a surround for the com and transponder...the only other things mounted there were the obvious vacuum gauge...mic jacks and a split master switch are just out of view on the left. The right side is fairly obvious with some CB's and such. The carbon fiber is just a look-a-like sticker that 3M makes available on eBay. I think I made those from .032 sheet.

In the center you might notice where I mounted my intercom in place of the ashtray. I also added the co-pilot PTT switch, which is a pretty good spot I think....easy to use right above the engine controls in case you ever fly from the right seat.

I was going for a more utility setup and got rid of any plastic overlays on the panel.

The instrument panel is actually an .032, well, let's call it a doubler, riveted to the original panel. Doing it this way allowed me to cover up some of the blemishes and hacks on the original panel and allowed me to cover some instrument holes that I didn't need, while adding some that I did. Also, I made it a tad oversize in some places to help cover up the gap that would be apparent since the plastic overlay was being omitted. Originally I was using this doubler as a kind of template to get everything in the right spot, but it ended up looking pretty decent, so I just had it powder coated and ran it! At this point in the refurb, I was getting pretty antsy to get her back flying and this proved the best option for that.

I added some pics of the panel work in my gallery.

In case you haven't seen this yet...
https://backcountrypilot.org/features/category/featured-bush-planes/rejuvenation

I'm sure by now you're starting to realize the size and significance of the rabbit hole in which you've just stepped. Hopefully your focus is sharp and determination is strong, unlike mine, which ended up costing me much more than a few weeks of downtime! Honestly, though, it was a great learning experience and I'm glad I did it. Now if I can just keep from stepping in it again!

Hey Bart, I see you did multiple EI engine instruments rather than a single monitor, pretty similar to what was in mine. Did you find that this approach was cheaper than one unit such as the MVP50 or EDM900? Just curious as to your approach. The previous owner of my 180 took the same one generally.

-Asa

A1Skinner wrote:So are you guys keeping shock mounts in the pilot side panels or just hard mounting them?

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

I hard mounted mine. Used these: https://www.mcmaster.com/91075a162 This allows for a flush or countersunk screw head instead of the stud and nut that are typical with most vibration isolator mounts.

Scolopax wrote:

A1Skinner wrote:So are you guys keeping shock mounts in the pilot side panels or just hard mounting them?

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

I hard mounted mine. Used these: https://www.mcmaster.com/91075a162 This allows for a flush or countersunk screw head instead of the stud and nut that are typical with most vibration isolator mounts.

There is a style of shock mount similar to that as well, don't have the p/n off hand. As we're about complete with this part of the process, I asked SairCorp about using countersunk screws on the upper (avionics/radio) panel, and he strongly advised against it due to the strength differences.

On my 182A I am using the factory shock mount locations, and replaced the mounts with new. I also added two holes for additional bracing down lower, since I expect it will want to bow out with the weight being imposed. Those won't be shock mounted most likely, but they're mostly for flex rather than weight support, so they'll be fixed with the intent of preventing outward movement. Kind of hard to explain in text, I will have pictures in a few weeks.

Scolopax wrote:

A1Skinner wrote:So are you guys keeping shock mounts in the pilot side panels or just hard mounting them?

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

I hard mounted mine. Used these: https://www.mcmaster.com/91075a162 This allows for a flush or countersunk screw head instead of the stud and nut that are typical with most vibration isolator mounts.

So why use standouts if you are hrd minting anyways? Why not just hard mount it right to the old panel so everything is flush? And why are we less worried about vibration now then they were in the 60s? I'm just asking because I need to decide how I'm going to do my 206...

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

In an effort to upgrade my panel I'm also trying diligently to retain/maintain a traditional, vintage look so while stand-off are not required they do serve this purpose, the look of a "floating" panel.

A1Skinner wrote:And why are we less worried about vibration now then they were in the 60s? I'm just asking because I need to decide how I'm going to do my 206...

As manufacturers have evolved the product lines, shock mounting seems to have increased. Some parts of the panel obviously don't need to be, but given how badly a piston plane can shake, I don't think I'd want it hung without at least some sort of isolation.

If you're going to do a stand-off, Spruce has some generic parts at the top of this page:
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/search/s ... TS&x=0&y=0

They also have the OEM shock mounts for the earlier Cessnas which, if you're keeping, should be replaced with new:
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/ ... kkey=16241

Note these say 5lb rating but so were the old ones, and the new set I bought seemed more rigid. I imagine they may take slightly more. The heavy-duty p/n is no longer made, but other provisions can be created if you're making a new panel anyway.

Mapleflt wrote:In an effort to upgrade my panel I'm also trying diligently to retain/maintain a traditional, vintage look so while stand-off are not required they do serve this purpose, the look of a "floating" panel.

That's part of it for me. I also painted the sub structure and didn't want continuous contact from one panel to the fresh paint. It's likely that I will want to change the panel, but leave the foundation alone.

Don't know why older instruments required vibration isolators. Probably a FAA reaction to an issue in service. Or maybe because they didn't have bushwheels yet