I just spoke with Charlie Callaghan, the wilderness coordinator ranger for DVNP. He says the closure is temporary and due to weather damage. It just went up on the DVNP morning report this morning. Apparently, there were some pretty good storms recently and the road through the south pass washed out. But you were there and saw it with your own eyes. I don't doubt your report on the rocks. I'm curious about the condition of the runway otherwise. Does it appear to be rutted or washed out?

Mr. Callaghan made it very clear that there is no permanent closure. The planning process for the Saline Hot Springs and surrounding area, including the Chicken Strip, is scheduled to start this fall, probably in November, with a request for public comment on the proposed scope of the plan. So, no decision has been made. In fact, the official discussion has not even started. The important takeaway is that we need to pay attention to the announcements and get all of our input in as soon as the process opens this fall. Some other good news is that the Park has already received several calls, including yours and mine, about this, so pilots care and are following up.

Among the concerns that will need to be addressed are concerns about safety of the strip. Personally, I don't think the strip is very difficult at all, especially compared to most of the places that are talked about on this board. As far as "resource" concerns go, it's hard to imagine a less intrusive means of access for the Springs than the Chicken Strip. By foot or hot air balloon, maybe.

CAVU

CAVU wrote: This process was to have included “An analysis will be made of the Chicken Strip airstrip to determine whether to retain it under 36CFR [36 CFR what? Hiding the ball, NPS?] or whether it should be closed due to safety and/or resource impact concerns.”

§ 2.17 Aircraft and air delivery.
(a) The following are prohibited:

(1) Operating or using aircraft on lands or waters other than at locations designated pursuant to special regulations.
(2) Where a water surface is designated pursuant to paragraph (a)(1) of this section, operating or using aircraft under power on the water within 500 feet of locations designated as swimming beaches, boat docks, piers, or ramps, except as otherwise designated.

(3) Delivering or retrieving a person or object by parachute, helicopter, or other airborne means, except in emergencies involving public safety or serious property loss, or pursuant to the terms and conditions of a permit.

(b) The provisions of this section, other than paragraph (c) of this section, shall not be applicable to official business of the Federal government, or emergency rescues in accordance with the directions of the superintendent, or to landings due to circumstances beyond the control of the operator.

(c)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (c)(3) of this section, the owners of a downed aircraft shall remove the aircraft and all component parts thereof in accordance with procedures established by the superintendent. In establishing removal procedures, the superintendent is authorized to: (i) Establish a reasonable date by which aircraft removal operations must be complete; (ii) determine times and means of access to and from the downed aircraft; and (iii) specify the manner or method of removal.

(2) Failure to comply with procedures and conditions established under paragraph (c)(1) of this section is prohibited.

(3) The superintendent may waive the requirements of paragraph (c)(1) of this section or prohibit the removal of downed aircraft, upon a determination that: (i) The removal of downed aircraft would constitute an unacceptable risk to human life; (ii) the removal of a downed aircraft would result in extensive resource damage; or (iii) the removal of a downed aircraft is impracticable or impossible.

(d) The use of aircraft shall be in accordance with regulations of the Federal Aviation Administration. Such regulations are adopted as a part of these regulations.

(e) The operation or use of hovercraft is prohibited.

(f) Violation of the terms and conditions of a permit issued in accordance with this section is prohibited and may result in the suspension or revocation of the permit.

Excerpt of "special regulations" of Death valley:

(e) Aircraft. The following are designated as locations where the operation of aircraft is allowed:

(1) Death Valley Airport, latitude 36°27'50" N., longitude 116°52'50" W.

(2) Stovepipe Wells Airport, latitude 36°36'15" N., longitude 117°09'30" W.

That hasn't been amended since 1984 by the way. Interesting.

Thanks for the cite, Richard.

CAVU

I've been careful to stay away from opinion on this. But here it is: this is indicative of a problem with "young" parks, be they in California or as I am used to dealing with, Alaska. It takes many years in some cases to resolve issues about prior uses. The Saline Valley was added in, what, 1980, very close to the time that most park areas in Alaska were added to the system? Here we are in 2011 still trying to tidy up these controversies to the satisfaction of all. Riiiight

What is clear to me is that purely from a legal standpoint it has been illegal to land your aircraft at the Chicken Strip probably since the day the land was designated part of the national park but certainly since 1984. It is left up to each park superintendent and his or superiors in Oakland to determine to what extent they are willing to hang it out there and allow activity clearly in the red to continue to occur while planning processes move forward towards resolution. JT Reynolds was an interesting guy, I wish I knew him better than I do which is mostly by reputation and from a couple of conversations at conferences and the like. He could be stubbornly intractable, digging his heels in all the way to China over something he just knew in his heart was right. On the other hand he was damn smart and wise about things that he knew would take a while to resolve. Our loss when he retired.

Seems as though by your reported conversation the park is willing to consider options and continue to allow extralegal use in the meantime and risk the wrath of other citizens whose viewpoints are just as important and valid as yours. OK. I believe what he was speaking about is the Wilderness and Backcountry Stewardship Plan, not just about Saline Valley. You can read about it here: http://parkplanning.nps.gov/projectHome ... ctID=23311

Maybe I'll exit here

Edit: Well, maybe one more thing: IMO, because of the current status of the regulation and the management plan...it takes an environmental assessment and planning process to permanently open. It wouldn't take anything but a phone call from the Superintendent to the Chief Ranger to close.

Please don't exit! This is at the heart of our favorite flying passion. It's much better to have your information and viewpoint here rather than leaving us to boil in our own self-righteous stew and then piss and moan when things don't go our way.

The Wilderness and Backcountry Stewardship Plan for DVNP is a different process that expressly does not include Saline Hot Springs or the Chicken Strip.

As for the Chicken Strip being illegal, the Superintendent no doubt has discretion on how to interpret and enforce the regulations. Fortunately, Superintendent Reynolds exercised his discretion to continue the historic use of the Chicken Strip. If a new Superintendent changed the policy, then we'd have to fight to change the regulation. Fortunately, the Park has reaffirmed its commitment to address this issue through the upcoming administrative process, which basically allows us a do-over to fix the omission in the original regulation and to make sure that the users who are most affected will be heard.

A few years ago the Forest Service closed Wilson Bar airstrip on the Main Salmon. Wilson Bar had been used consistently for decades before the surrounding land was designated wilderness. An intrepid pilot landed there, drew a citation and challenged it. The result was a change in regulations and Wilson Bar has been open to public enjoyment for some time now.

That's what should happen with the Chicken Strip if it's ever permanently closed, although I hope we'll never have to go through the violation/challenge exercise. It's a historic use of minimal impact on the resource and the public that provides great benefit to many users. Just because someone neglected to include it in the original regulation (or slipped it through the administrative process while users were napping) doesn't change those facts or the legitimacy of its place in DVNP. We just need to add the coordinates to a new subsection (e)(3).

For these reasons, I don't think it's accurate to say that the viewpoints of other citizens who want the strip closed are "just as important and valid as [mine]." I do question the legitimacy and validity of objections to the continued operation of the strip. I don't know why the original regulation failed to include the Chicken Strip, but the members of the public who would be by far the most hurt by closing it are pilots, and pilots and benefit the most from it remaining open. I think that the context of this particular strip is important. The actual location and orientation of of the Chicken Strip is such that it has, at most, negligible impact on visitors and the environment. It cannot be seen from the road or from the lower springs. It's so far away that you have to listen closely to hear aircraft taking off. It's relatively short, and made out of the gravel on an alluvial fan that has only the sparsest vegetation. The EIS will address the impacts, if any. I hope and expect that the conclusion will be that the impact is not significant.

If no wildlife are affected, and human visitors are not disturbed, then what is the real objection? A philosophical objection to aircraft in national parks, in my opinion, is not as important or valid as the real enjoyment and benefit that pilots and passengers get from flying into this wonderful place. Heck, I wish there weren't so many RVs in Yellowstone, but I don't think for a minute that it would be fair or reasonable to bar other folks who travel by RV from seeing the park just because I don't like being stuck behind them on the road or listening to their generators at night. I have my own travel preferences, that others don't share, that I nonetheless hope others will respect in return.

CAVU

Just FYI if they want to go the impact route. I checked out Google Maps and if I'm correct, the graded DIRT road from Hwy 190 to the hot springs is about 50 miles.

[googlemap]http://maps.google.com/maps?q=36.8039,+-117.774&hl=en&ll=36.802172,-117.778544&spn=0.013573,0.019655&sll=36.606709,-117.154083&sspn=0.955774,0.942078&t=h&z=16[/googlemap]

I'm thinking that a runway less than 3000 feet long is way less of an impact than a 50 mile dirt road with vehicles traveling on it daily kicking up a crap load of dust, too. How many planes go in and out of the Chicken Strip on a daily basis?? If I had to guess a daily average for 365 days a year. I'm guessing about 1 or less planes per day?!? And a plane is kicking up dust and gravel for no more than 2000 feet??? Unlike multiple vehicles traveling on the dirt road between Hwy 190 and the hot springs daily!!

58Skylane wrote:Just FYI if they want to go the impact route. I checked out Google Maps and if I'm correct, the graded DIRT road from Hwy 190 to the hot springs is about 50 miles.

[googlemap]I give up trying to put the map in here [/googlemap]

I'm thinking that a runway less than 3000 feet long is way less of an impact than a 50 mile dirt road with vehicles traveling on it daily kicking up a crap load of dust, too. How many planes go in and out of the Chicken Strip on a daily basis?? If I had to guess a daily average for 365 days a year. I'm guessing about 1 or less planes per day?!? And a plane is kicking up dust and gravel for no more than 2000 feet???

That strip is about about 1500' long and 30' wide. This time of year I'll bet it doesn't see any movements from May/June thru September. Hot springs aren't fun when it's 110* out.

I just talked with Brent Pennington (Chief Ranger) and he said:

Rocks on the runway? We didn't put no stinking rocks on no runway. We will decide what to do when we decide. Liability issues... Yack Yack Yack

We got X million acres and that airstrip counts for nothing. I have never been there. I will check with my staff. Lizard Lee said it isn't safe. LOL Lizard Lee decided it's not safe???

MOU with the REA>>> I was just reading it and it says if the airstrip is damaged we can close it.

You have any objections to a work crew doing the repairs? Well... That might be an option.

O.K. We are dead meat. You can send mail to [email protected]

George

The last time it was damaged, volunteers fixed it with NPS approval. Is there reason to think that can't be done again?

My e-mail
Just heard that the Chicken Strip is closed. I like to land on that strip
once a year to enjoy the hot spring. If you need volunteers to help
maintain it let me know if you schedule a work party. Winter prefered.

Sure hope that it is not cloed for good. That strip was there before Death
Valley became a NP.

We are all tax payers and weather we use the road or a gravel strip should
make no difference. My plane makes a lot less noise than an F-16.

Tim Avery


His responce

The Chicken Strip is closed for now due to severe flood damage from last
week. We are working through some legal concerns through our regional and
national aviation staff regarding an existing maintenance agreement with
the Recreational Aviation Foundation (RAF). Should have more information
later in the week or early next week. The park is getting ready to start
on a Management Plan for the Saline Valley area that will determine in the
long term what happens with the Chicken Strip. There will be many
opportunities for public involvement in that process. But for the short
term the strip will be closed until we can get some clarification on the
legal and liability issues have maintaining the strip through the RAF
Agreement. Thank you for your concern.

Brent Pennington
Chief Ranger
Death Valley National Park
(760) 786-3245 Office
(760) 786-3246 FAX

This is the way it was. I have W36 48.76 N117 46.04 or use the info on the sign. Should be able to see it on Google Earth. Look close.

I'm in on the volunteer crew if they want to let it get repaired by pilots.
I usually go up in the fall when weather gets cooler.

m7flyer wrote:I'm in on the volunteer crew if they want to let it get repaired by pilots.
I usually go up in the fall when weather gets cooler.

I just might be down in SoCal working at my company headquarters through this fall/winter. If I'm down there during the work party weekend (if one gets scheduled), I'm in to volunteer!! I'll drive up from Orange County with my pick up and I can haul up some supplies (shovels, rakes, etc). I have access to a flat bed trailer down there too if we need to haul more stuff.

Former poster, long time lurker.

It takes a lot for me to actually post something online, but this is a worthy issue.

The Chicken Strip is closed due to washouts. Apparently both the north and south roads into the valley are also closed from the same storm, but they will probably be open pretty soon.

I spoke with the DVNPS chief ranger (Brent Pennington) for almost an hour today regarding the closure of the Chicken Strip. He was very generous with his time and was actually keenly interested in my input regarding the Chicken Strip.

This is an encapsulation of what I got out of our conversation, but don't take it as gospel, as some of it is interpretation on my part.

There are two issues in play: the long term management plan for the Saline Valley, and the short term decision on how to proceed with the damage to the Chicken Strip. Apparently there was a handshake agreement (for lack of a better term) with the RAF to maintain the Chicken Strip, but that was made with a former park superintendent. The current superintendent (Sarah Craighead) is unsure of how to proceed with the issue in the short term. I have NOT spoken with Superintendent Craighead, but I was told that she is the person who will ultimately make the decision. I was told that she is talking with the RAF, as well as her supervisors, and is soliciting input from national parks in Alaska, where primitive airstrips are more common.

The primary concern seems to be what liability the NPS assumes from allowing people to use the airstrip, and vicariously what liability they assume from allowing the airstrip to be maintained. That, and the fact that it's possibly the only primitive airstrip in a national park open to the public in the lower 48, and they really don't know how to proceed.

In the past the Chicken Strip has been damaged from storms, and people have simply come in and fixed it. Sort of the don't-ask-don't-tell of backcountry flying. It's possible that such a solution will still be an option, providing Superintendent Craighead doesn't specifically prohibit re-opening the strip. Ideally her position will be that the agreement with the RAF still stands, and the repairs can be done while specifically sanctioned (though not funded) by the NPS.

I think it is very, very important that while the Saline Valley Management Plan is being formulated, the Chicken Strip needs to be open and be used. Exclusion of the Chicken Strip from the management plan will be infinitely easier if it is already closed.

The other area of critical importance is that pilot input be included in the upcoming Saline Valley Management Plan. For those not familiar with the Saline Valley Hot Springs, since it became part of the NPS it has been allowed to be operated in a manner completely foreign to anything any National Park has ever tolerated or condoned. Improved hot springs, public nudity, nonnative plant species, long term camping, etc.. The Chicken Strip is a very small part of the overall issues with the Saline Valley Hot Springs, but it's an important part to us. The opportunity for public input regarding how the Saline Valley is managed is drawing near, and given the relatively remote and obscure nature of the area, it's a genuine opportunity for peoples' voices to be heard.

One thing I cannot stress enough as someone who has spent equal time in and out of government, is that the people who are tasked with making these decisions are real people who are, by in large, genuinely interested in doing the right thing. They are getting input and pressure from their supervisors in Washington, and they are also getting input and pressure from the public that they serve (not all of whom are aviation friendly). To challenge the status quo or to go against the "leanings" of their supervisors can be an extremely difficult thing to do, and at the end of the day it's not like any of them are flying into the Chicken Strip. I guess what I'm saying is that it's easy to bitch and whine about Big Gubment and the goddam bureaucrats, and it feels good, too. But those people who are faceless to you are real people doing a real job for which they will reap real consequences, be them good or bad. AND THOSE PEOPLE READ THESE POSTS.

As an individual poster you may be anonymous, but your voice is loud and clear to EVERYONE. Nobody likes to be accused of being an enemy of the populous or of being incompetent or greedy or stupid, but when the folks at the NPS read these forums that's a large bit of what they hear. In my experience people pretty much quit listening to what's being said when they feel insulted. So think about it...if it's your job to make a recommendation on the status of the Chicken Strip and you'll gain nothing but legal vulnerability and speculative attention from your supervisors for keeping it open, and the loudest voice from the pilot population is derisive comments and name calling, what's your decision going to be?

I encourage everyone to make their voice heard, but please save the ranting for a bar stool if you really want to save this airstrip.

I think that public input has a very good chance of swaying this decision, and the next one. But only if it's put in writing and sent to Superintendent Craighead in a manner and format that she and her supervisors are receptive to. Regardless of what your message is, be professional, polite, and eloquent and you will be heard.

Some positive things that can be said about aviation in the Saline Valley might be that it's a much more environmentally friendly way to get into the valley verses driving in; that it allows people who are not physically able to endure a six-hour washboard run to access the valley; that airplane campers stay a half mile from the springs and do not impact the normal camping areas; that airplane campers typically have a much lighter footprint than vehicle campers; that airplanes can be, and have been used to search for overdue land travelers or to provide a rapid and free extrication of sick or injured travelers from the valley; that the only real impact small planes have is the noise signature, which is pretty irrelevant in contrast to the military aircraft; that there is really no conflict between the military aircraft and civilian aircraft, as all the military aircraft in the valley have on-board radar and can see us from fifteen minutes out; that there is nothing unusual about landing on a primitive airstrip and the NPS is no more liable for airplanes landing on the Chicken Strip than they are for jeeps driving over Steele pass; that the Chicken Strip is a fairly easy strip by backcountry standards and it's the responsibility of the pilot to determine whether they are able to land, not the responsibility of the NPS, etc..

On another note, whether you love him, hate him or have never met him, Lizard Lee is the largest if not only conduit the NPS uses to view the day to day activities of the Saline Valley. He's about as far from an authority figure as you can get, and he won't say a thing until people do something that endangers the ability of the Saline Springs to keep operating. Getting in a pissing contest with him over something as simple as enforcing the basic rules he's been tasked with is silly and unproductive. Landing on the Hero Strip or the old Mule Skinner strip (both of which have been closed for well over a decade and before the NPS assimilated the land) is damn good fun, but it sure doesn't help keep the Chicken Strip open. In fact, I cant think of anything that will guarantee closure of the Chicken Strip faster than the NPS learning that people are coming down and landing off-strip for fun. Just saying.

Good points Hammer and well said. I am guilty of ranting about the government. I will send a nice letter. If and when the Chicken Strip is permanently closed I will send the nasty gram. I worked for the gov for over 29 years so I have a good feel for why and how things get done or not done.

I hope our friends in Death Valley do the right thing and honor the agreement with the RAF and let us fix the strip.


Good day...Rob

+2. Welcome back, Hammer.

Hammer:

Apparently there was a handshake agreement (for lack of a better term) with the RAF to maintain the Chicken Strip

Actually there is a "MUCH better term". There is a MOU with the RAF in existance. When I spoke with Brent he said he had JUST got it out to read. That's after they had the strip closed.

Lee works there and has worked there for many years so the worry about libility using volunteer labor seems like a non issue.

Brent has never been there and has no idea what the damage looks like or what was done to close the strip.

I am not sure who actually did the work but I suspect it was Lee. Brent said any repairs would be way down on their priority list.

George

I only need 400' to land. If anyone wants to go and start work I am free the first 2 weeks of September and after October 15th. Provided the King says it is ok to move his rocks Just kidding. We will have to follow the RAFs lead. They are good folks and have the manners and patience to deal with the King and his court. I don't.

Good day

A lot cooler after Oct 15th. Has anybody done a fly over to check it out yet. How bad is it.

Tim