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Chicken Strip

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Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:32 pm

Re: Chicken Strip

I must add that I am very angry about this and I have asked Brent to set up a meeting with Sara Craighead for one day next week so I can tell her what I think. I will start holding my breath on next Wed.

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Desert Rat offline
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Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:40 pm

Re: Chicken Strip

FLHusky wrote:We all want the same thing and we all get frustrated with how slow government moves.


Working slow doesn't excuse not telling the truth.

I, for one, am a little tired of "being nice" to people who manage my land and work for me.
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Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:43 pm

Re: Chicken Strip

Desert Rat wrote:
FLHusky wrote:We all want the same thing and we all get frustrated with how slow government moves.


Working slow doesn't excuse not telling the truth.

I, for one, am a little tired of "being nice" to people who manage my land and work for me.


DITTO DR..........From what I've seen posted this looked like a done deal. Tell me, do those big rocks I see on the field grow there? Hope you get some amswers.
I feel your frustration!!!
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Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:47 pm

Re: Chicken Strip

Sounds like Lee is not telling Brent the same story he is telling everyone else. I spoke to Brent last week and he is sitting on his hands waiting for this amendment (between RAF and the Park Service) to get back to him and Sara so they can feel safe letting anyone work on the strip. Even if that means moving one rock one foot. He has also told Lee that it is not his responsibility to work on the strip. He has also acknowledged that he has little control over Lee. What a cluster F*&k.


Desert Rat I have around 20 people signed up to help at the Chicken Strip and to get other strips in shape. I will also call Brent on Monday to keep the pressure up to stop this jerking around. If you get anywhere let me know and I’ll do the same.

Rick
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Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:00 pm

Re: Chicken Strip

701driver wrote:Sounds like Lee is not telling Brent the same story he is telling everyone else. I spoke to Brent last week and he is sitting on his hands waiting for this amendment (between RAF and the Park Service) to get back to him and Sara so they can feel safe letting anyone work on the strip. Even if that means moving one rock one foot. He has also told Lee that it is not his responsibility to work on the strip. He has also acknowledged that he has little control over Lee. What a cluster F*&k.


Desert Rat I have around 20 people signed up to help at the Chicken Strip and to get other strips in shape. I will also call Brent on Monday to keep the pressure up to stop this jerking around. If you get anywhere let me know and I’ll do the same.

Rick


Rick: The problem is Lee put almost all the rocks in place himself. So he placed them, painted them and now he can't move them!!! Is this real? I think some of the rocks near the upper end might have been pulled out by the drag (no paint). The Chief Ranger has little control over Lee. Now that is cool... BTW Those rocks are painted with real white paint not white wash.
I walked beside the runway on both sides and I saw no evidence of water damage.
All we need to do is move some rocks and drive on the runway to compact it. How hard is that?
I will go back out there and move those damn rocks myself. No problem.
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Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:19 pm

Re: Chicken Strip

Can you refresh our memory with out going back to read through this thread?

Who is Lee?

Does Lee own the Chicken Strip airport?

Is Lee a government employee?

Who controls what Lee does at the Chicken Strip airport?

Who instructed Lee to put the rocks on the runway and drag it with his Suzuki 4x4?

Who owns the Chicken Strip airport?

Who owns the land the airport is with in?

If there was no "water damage" to the Chicken Strip airport, who was the person, persons, and/or company or government office that initiated the closure of the Chicken Strip?

If Lee acted on his own to place all those rocks on the runway and "plow" the runway. Then Lee himself should be the one to fix the runway!

I don't know. Just a little confused now and definitely feel your frustration. Hopefully this will all work out for the better (airstrip open!)
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Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:18 pm

Re: Chicken Strip

Desert Rat wrote:
701driver wrote:Sounds like Lee is not telling Brent the same story he is telling everyone else. I spoke to Brent last week and he is sitting on his hands waiting for this amendment (between RAF and the Park Service) to get back to him and Sara so they can feel safe letting anyone work on the strip. Even if that means moving one rock one foot. He has also told Lee that it is not his responsibility to work on the strip. He has also acknowledged that he has little control over Lee. What a cluster F*&k.


Desert Rat I have around 20 people signed up to help at the Chicken Strip and to get other strips in shape. I will also call Brent on Monday to keep the pressure up to stop this jerking around. If you get anywhere let me know and I’ll do the same.

Rick


Rick: The problem is Lee put almost all the rocks in place himself. So he placed them, painted them and now he can't move them!!! Is this real? I think some of the rocks near the upper end might have been pulled out by the drag (no paint). The Chief Ranger has little control over Lee. Now that is cool... BTW Those rocks are painted with real white paint not white wash.
I walked beside the runway on both sides and I saw no evidence of water damage.
All we need to do is move some rocks and drive on the runway to compact it. How hard is that?
I will go back out there and move those damn rocks myself. No problem.


I'll be in the area next Saturday and I feel obligated to move all those rocks off the runway. With exception of the rocks painted white at the ends of the runway unless I see any documented permission or orders to leave the painted ones I might even move those also. I could use some help as I'm an old man with a bad back :D I've got chains and tow straps so I'll be helping any one with mechanical problems to move their cars, quads, motorcycles, plows, graders, ect. off the runway also.

Can anybody help me with this endeavor :?: I feel it's my duty to volunteer some time to the NPS and the people of the United States, seeing as there is a financial crisis in this country preventing full staffing for needed services.

10am Chicken Strip October 1st.
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Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:36 am

Re: Chicken Strip

This has the apearance of a typical cowardly gov employee. Sombody decided that they did not like airplanes landing at chicken strip so they closed it and blamed storm damage. Looks like there was no storm damage. Nobody seems to know who gave the order to close it. Now that it is closed (or is it really if nobody ordered it) you cannot find a gov employee with the guts to reopen it.

Point out where I am wrong here. I really hope that I am wrong this time.

Tim
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Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:43 am

Re: Chicken Strip

58Skylane wrote:Can you refresh our memory with out going back to read through this thread?

Who is Lee? Lizard Lee is a Park volunteer who lives at the springs. He does a lot of the work for the Park Service. They call the volunteers VIP's volunteer in park.

Does Lee own the Chicken Strip airport? You (and I) own the Chicken Strip

Is Lee a government employee? Well probably not.

Who controls what Lee does at the Chicken Strip airport? The National Park Service

Who instructed Lee to put the rocks on the runway and drag it with his Suzuki 4x4? See above answer.

Who owns the Chicken Strip airport? Again You and I.

Who owns the land the airport is with in? See above answer.

If there was no "water damage" to the Chicken Strip airport, who was the person, persons, and/or company or government office that initiated the closure of the Chicken Strip? Lizard Lee. I think I need to be clear here and say that there was probably some light water damage. That sort of damage is normal there.

If Lee acted on his own to place all those rocks on the runway and "plow" the runway. Then Lee himself should be the one to fix the runway! Good point. You tell the Park Service that.

I don't know. Just a little confused now and definitely feel your frustration. Hopefully this will all work out for the better (airstrip open!)
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Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:54 am

Re: Chicken Strip

qmdv wrote:This has the apearance of a typical cowardly gov employee. Sombody decided that they did not like airplanes landing at chicken strip so they closed it and blamed storm damage. Looks like there was no storm damage. Nobody seems to know who gave the order to close it. Now that it is closed (or is it really if nobody ordered it) you cannot find a gov employee with the guts to reopen it.

Point out where I am wrong here. I really hope that I am wrong this time.

Tim



Is "Lee" actually an employee? Or a Park Volunteer, and as far as work on the strip, I don't plan on overstepping my bounds but it can't hurt to move a few rocks just like if you were driving down a dirt road and came upon a bunch of rocks in the road, wouldn't you move them to get by?
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Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:55 am

Re: Chicken Strip

Desert Rat wrote:
58Skylane wrote:Can you refresh our memory with out going back to read through this thread?

Who is Lee? Lizard Lee is a Park volunteer who lives at the springs. He does a lot of the work for the Park Service. They call the volunteers VIP's volunteer in park.

Does Lee own the Chicken Strip airport? You (and I) own the Chicken Strip

Is Lee a government employee? Well probably not.

Who controls what Lee does at the Chicken Strip airport? The National Park Service

Who instructed Lee to put the rocks on the runway and drag it with his Suzuki 4x4? See above answer.

Who owns the Chicken Strip airport? Again You and I.

Who owns the land the airport is with in? See above answer.

If there was no "water damage" to the Chicken Strip airport, who was the person, persons, and/or company or government office that initiated the closure of the Chicken Strip? Lizard Lee. I think I need to be clear here and say that there was probably some light water damage. That sort of damage is normal there.

If Lee acted on his own to place all those rocks on the runway and "plow" the runway. Then Lee himself should be the one to fix the runway! Good point. You tell the Park Service that.

I don't know. Just a little confused now and definitely feel your frustration. Hopefully this will all work out for the better (airstrip open!)


Thanks for the clarification, John. I have a much clearer picture of what's going on down there.
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Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:59 am

Re: Chicken Strip

Glidergeek wrote:
qmdv wrote:This has the apearance of a typical cowardly gov employee. Sombody decided that they did not like airplanes landing at chicken strip so they closed it and blamed storm damage. Looks like there was no storm damage. Nobody seems to know who gave the order to close it. Now that it is closed (or is it really if nobody ordered it) you cannot find a gov employee with the guts to reopen it.

Point out where I am wrong here. I really hope that I am wrong this time.

Tim



Is "Lee" actually an employee? Or a Park Volunteer, and as far as work on the strip, I don't plan on overstepping my bounds but it can't hurt to move a few rocks just like if you were driving down a dirt road and came upon a bunch of rocks in the road, wouldn't you move them to get by?


Then what's stopping this Lee guy from throwing the rocks back onto the runway when you leave??
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Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:00 am

Re: Chicken Strip

"Who controls what Lee does at the Chicken Strip airport? The National Park Service"

From what you're saying it sounds like Lee is controlling not the NPS. And Lee has overstepped his bounds or duty's and taken matters into his own hands.
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Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:02 am

Re: Chicken Strip

qmdv wrote:This has the apearance of a typical cowardly gov employee. Sombody decided that they did not like airplanes landing at chicken strip so they closed it and blamed storm damage. Looks like there was no storm damage. Nobody seems to know who gave the order to close it. Now that it is closed (or is it really if nobody ordered it) you cannot find a gov employee with the guts to reopen it.

Point out where I am wrong here. I really hope that I am wrong this time.

Tim


That sounds about right.

At one time there were two (2) airstrips at the springs in Saline Valley. The one in the pictures below was closer to the springs than the "Chicken Strip". The Park Service wanted to close this strip. The Super at the time told me (and other people) that if no one objected to the closing of this airstrip then the Chicken Strip would be safe. He said they couldn't justify having two airstrips. This one was better for camping but it was a little close. The Red/White Maule is me.
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Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:08 am

Re: Chicken Strip

58Skylane wrote:
Glidergeek wrote:
qmdv wrote:This has the apearance of a typical cowardly gov employee. Sombody decided that they did not like airplanes landing at chicken strip so they closed it and blamed storm damage. Looks like there was no storm damage. Nobody seems to know who gave the order to close it. Now that it is closed (or is it really if nobody ordered it) you cannot find a gov employee with the guts to reopen it.

Point out where I am wrong here. I really hope that I am wrong this time.

Tim



Is "Lee" actually an employee? Or a Park Volunteer, and as far as work on the strip, I don't plan on overstepping my bounds but it can't hurt to move a few rocks just like if you were driving down a dirt road and came upon a bunch of rocks in the road, wouldn't you move them to get by?


Then what's stopping this Lee guy from throwing the rocks back onto the runway when you leave??


Nothing, but if you document that the runway is clean and clear and you catch somebody intentionally damaging wouldn't it be the same as somebody say damaging a road or structure? Like vandalism? Isn't that a punishable crime even if done by a "volunteer"?
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Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:11 am

Re: Chicken Strip

Glidergeek wrote:"Who controls what Lee does at the Chicken Strip airport? The National Park Service"

From what you're saying it sounds like Lee is controlling not the NPS. And Lee has overstepped his bounds or duty's and taken matters into his own hands.


Exactly!!! So I'm thinking Lee should take a nice long hike in the hot desert.

So since Lee did this major damage. I'm thinking Lee is responsible for the damages and should be held liable! Anything he can be charged with? Heck, if some yahoo like me or other thugs did something like Lee did (destroy a perfectly good airstrip on Government Property that you and I pay for), they would be locked up and the keys thrown away! Well, at least some hefty fines to pay. :evil:
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Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:41 am

Re: Chicken Strip

Much as I would have loved to move the rocks yesterday I think that sort of confrontation would have been a really bad idea with Lee and I as the only ones around. (and me with no gun) Really bad idea. I couldn't have moved the Suzuki and that drag anyway and I am sure that Suzuki belongs to the Park Service. He has another Suzuki that is in much better condition and I am sure it is NPS property.

I think the Park Service would like to keep this airstrip closed until they get their Management Plan process going. Then closing it forever will be much easier.

BTW When the Park Service patrolled the Park by airplane they used the Chicken strip.

I have picked up parts for people with damaged vehicles and flown the parts out there free of charge. One time I had to drive up to a junk yard in benton and get a drive shaft and then get a couple of new U joints and deliver the parts. I also purchased food and news papers one winter because both roads were closed by snow. (Steel Pass was probably open)

Lee works on vehicles and can repair tires etc. Without his work that place would be a disaster for the Park Service.

The North pass road is about 50% bladed but they (Inyo County) probably need another month to finish so the unfinished part is rough. 4X4 would be a good idea but they are no really bad areas. There is one place that they need a bridge but as the Road is Park service slim chance. They would have to take the money out of their "Guns and Ammo" budget.
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Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:00 am

Re: Chicken Strip

My suggestion is for someone LOCAL to go to their congressman's ( that represents that area) STAFF and make their/our case to them. They would need to be very reasonable (and factual) giving both the history and the recent run around. The staff with just phone calls can move govmt employees and their attitudes very quickly-if they are sympathetic and want to.... Typically they don't bother the congressman themselves unless it is 'big'.
Unless there are regulations against what congressmen want-they get it-in their own district (within reason of course).

my thoughts,
lc
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Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:25 am

Re: Chicken Strip

I just scrolled back through this thread and realize that there is one update missing. Brent provided us with his suggested changes to the maintenance agreement, the RAF has responded agreeing to all and stated that we are ready to sign. We are now waiting for the final document to sign.

What the RAF plans to do is contact Brent Monday, explain the frustration shared by all and cleary explain just how ugly this will get if they do not take action immediately.

Most of what has been posted here, I agree is fair representation of the situation. Lee seems to be there unofficially and is taking action and/or direction without any license to act.

It seems that this has worked in the past as the Park Service claims no budget to staff the area. If we force his departure we may feed their argument for closure.

Let's be careful not to win this battle and lose the war.
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Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:30 am

Re: Chicken Strip

58Skylane wrote:
Glidergeek wrote:"Who controls what Lee does at the Chicken Strip airport? The National Park Service"

From what you're saying it sounds like Lee is controlling not the NPS. And Lee has overstepped his bounds or duty's and taken matters into his own hands.


Exactly!!! So I'm thinking Lee should take a nice long hike in the hot desert.

So since Lee did this major damage. I'm thinking Lee is responsible for the damages and should be held liable! Anything he can be charged with? Heck, if some yahoo like me or other thugs did something like Lee did (destroy a perfectly good airstrip on Government Property that you and I pay for), they would be locked up and the keys thrown away! Well, at least some hefty fines to pay. :evil:


Slow down there! It's a strange notion, but it sounds like Lee has some clout with the NPS, plus clout with the many visitors of the valley. Don't make him your enemy! Take a lesson from the politicians and call him your friend.

Here's my advice:

First buy some nice gifts for the beloved Lizard Lee, the great caretaker of our precious resource. At the minimum, I'd suggest a BCP hat and a shortfield.com shirt.

Show up with a big work party. It's easy for him to tell one person to leave the airstrip alone, but he's likely to capitulate if there's a dozen or more. He already stated there needed to be a big work party, so tell him you're doing as he requested.

Give him the gifts, slap him on the back, and profusely thank him for looking out for aviation interests. Tell him how you are forever indebted that he put those white Xs out there, potentially saving any airplanes from hitting a rock or flipping in the soft sand. The runway doesn't look as bad as you had feared, but it's better safe than sorry! Ask his opinion on a few matters and make him feel like a member of the team. In fact, make him an honorary member of BCP.

Remove the rocks, pack the runway, judge the airstrip to be safe and usable, then remove the white Xs. See if you can get a couple of pictures of Lee wearing the hat, standing with the aviators. next to the now perfect runway.

Take those pictures to the NPS, and explain that Lee and the work party amicably solved the problem together to the satisfaction of all.

When you go back to the strip in the future and encounter him, treat him like a friend. Hopefully, he will become a good friend. If not, then we at least need amicable relations.
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