Jaerl wrote:What is the Useable weight of that plane, 800lbs? Four guys and fuel? Baggage? Just plain luck they are all OK.

maulewaco wrote: I also believe that PIC might be the same one who flipped a Cessna 150 over in smiley creek in the snow a few years back due to low on fuel. Go figure??. Common sense makes you a super hero these days!

robw56 wrote:

Jaerl wrote:What is the Useable weight of that plane, 800lbs? Four guys and fuel? Baggage? Just plain luck they are all OK.

Most Stinson 108-3s have a useful load over 1000lbs and a gross weight of 2400lbs and 50 gallon fuel tanks. So he might not have been over gross. Obviously too heavy for the conditions though.

Nosedragger wrote:Sheesh! I doubt I would have done anything different at the point of impact or had anything to say about bracing for impact, I go over that at startup because I know I don't say much when the SHTF (If the trees coming at you aren't already warning enough....) but I'm sure I would have turned around in that meadow to either circle and build altitude or go back and land. And... WTF is up with the guy filming all the gore? If you're in good enough shape to do a documentary, you're able to get your ass in the plane to scrounge up blankets, flares, a radio , water, first aid kit or something. Anything would have been better than zooming in someone that needs some first aid instead of giving him some help.

BTW, Did anyone notice that the mixture was full rich?

182 STOL driver wrote:

robw56 wrote:

Jaerl wrote:What is the Useable weight of that plane, 800lbs? Four guys and fuel? Baggage? Just plain luck they are all OK.

Most Stinson 108-3s have a useful load over 1000lbs and a gross weight of 2400lbs and 50 gallon fuel tanks. So he might not have been over gross. Obviously too heavy for the conditions though.

Not sure what airport they were at or Density Altitude but it looks like Sulfeer Creek -at gross or near could
have 0 or very little climb performance -especially with 150 hp . Glad they made it but maybe they should been lighter for flight >>>> or much earlier in the day (cooler ) .Density Altitude vs 150 hp is a no win situation at gross.

WingsOverPalawan wrote:In the slow-motion replay of the moment of the crash, is the pilot holding an Ipad?

Zane wrote:Like someone said, not much monday morning quarterbacking to be done. It's all right there in HD. There is something to talk about though, and that's why people continue to do this.

I'm convinced that the dangers of high DA continue to be a contributing factor to crashes because they are just one of those things that people unfortunately have to learn the hard way. Even though we're quizzed on the concept of density altitude and performance degradation gratuitously in the FAA curriculums, it seems that it doesn't make an impression on pilots until they've experienced it first hand. The way it's taught is very academic, students supply the right multiple choice answer, but the tangible risks are something that are never addressed in practical training. Poor climb performance while in cruise flight...say 9,500 climbing up to 11,500, usually just doesn't register because there isn't terrain staring you in the face. Also, many pilots don't experience the performance of their aircraft at max gross. How many stories have you heard about the low time pilot who buys a HP aircraft, and flies it alone 99% of the time...then one day loads his wife and another couple into it with full fuel and tries to takeoff from a high and hot airport? Classic.

I was chatting with ChrisG about this topic this morning, and I admitted that if not for my formative flying years spent reading this forum, with primary focus on mountain flying, I would probably not be as aware of a lot of mountain flying dangers like high DA. We take a lot of our knowledge for granted because we read it and discuss it daily here. Many pilots do not, and they find themselves in a scenario like this one, either completely ignorant of the performance limitations of their aircraft, or pressured to return 3 people to their schedules, and go for it with high hopes. Skills like thermalling and circling can't be relied upon when you don't have the lift margin to even bank 15 degrees.

If you witnessed this guy land heavy at Bruce Meadows, and he was prepping for takeoff, would you approach him with a little free advice? What do you say? We're a proud bunch, it's tough to hear criticism of our decisions, especially in front of your pax.

Rob wrote:Am I the only one that's noticed that with enough DA your wings, prop, and mind don't give a hoot how much power you have?...

Rob wrote:Weird.....
Am I the only one that's noticed that with enough DA your wings, prop, and mind don't give a hoot how much power you have?...