Damn this thread....

Swore I'd not watch another you tube douche bag diminishing aviation again and here this thread came along and suckered me in....

Are you flipping serious ? The only difference between Dan Gryder and any other narcissistic you tube clickbait wonder is the weapon of delivery.

Message? What message? Dan Gryder is no Messiah... and his grandstanding video provided no message. He assembled a hoge poge mish mash of easily attainable data, overlayed on 4 (yes 4 in 70 years!) incidents / accidents with similar profiles, and somehow he knows exactly what brought that ship down? Well.... Dan... I'm waiting... because just like a crap horror film he leads you right down a path to a big fat zero.... yes it lawn darted. We got that. Most of us even got that without your help, thank you very much.... But why did it lawn dart? Did I miss the part where Dan gave us that piece? because all I got was "there's something going on back there" The airplane pitched over for 800'...
Yes, I'd have to imagine pitch authority went south.... Did it lose a trim tab? Did it lose the whole flipping tail from a flutter issue? Did the pilot simply pass and fall over the yoke? (I have a near and dear friend that did that), did it go in to an uncommanded reverse? ( I have a near and dear friend who passed flying one of several AT-502's that did exactly that) indecently, there is a newish AD out on these as a LET410 experienced this. Now since Otters seem to be 'hard on the tails' (what working airplanes aren't?) let's just say that's it.... sooo... did messiah Dan give up the ghost on why the tail 'quit'? Nah man.... Dan is just full of Sh!t, and playing clickbait with the souls of 10 people...

Casting shades on the messenger? Frick... this is the internet... I don't care if he painted him purple.. If you can't stomach someone calling someone else out for their nonsense on the internet you need to find another medium for entertainment. Nearest I could tell MTV was all but a scholar and a gentleman with his opinion of Dan... Sometimes you just have to call a spade a spade, and Dan, well... he's just a tool...
For those who haven't been paying attention here's just his latest toolery;

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-delt ... Y920091112

Is that really the source of education you'd prefer to follow? I'd prefer not to see that type of individual even associated with the gift of flight.

What nonsense ?

MTV's a gentleman and canned it... I'll call the spade out on it.... How about;

'Incident #4' ( 0.04 sec). He knows this is related to 4 incedents?
'Nose down to the water, only a couple ways you can get an airplane to do that' (0.28 sec) .... maybe for Dan....
Let's see.... pitch, power, mechanical (of which there are several there alone), pilot incapacitation.... Shit, we're past a couple and I haven't even warmed up...
'I'm going to tell you what happened out there, and how those ten people died' (0.47 sec) I'm still waiting on this one...
'and I'm going to tell you what happened' 0.59 sec) ... Efff ... I'm still waiting on this
'I did all the research, I'm going to tell you exactly what happened' (1.08 sec) I wish he'd just get to it...
'It's got a Walters dash 11, 750 shaft horsepower' (2.22 sec).... Sorry expert Dan, it was a GE M601E-11A (nit picking yes, but I'm not the self proclaimed expert, and I can get it right)
'with a big ole hartzel on the front of that thing' (2.41 sec) bzzzz again, it's a 106" V508 Avia
'incident #2 aircraft pilot reported a nose down pitch, incident #3 aircraft abruptly pitched up to a 45° nose up angle' This does not sound like the same thing to me?

so.... we're a quarter of the way through, and a redneck crop duster shot the 'experts' testimony plumb to shit.... Get your 'facts' on the you tube university,... or not.

I hope Dan Gryder gets to share a cell with Trevor Jacobs and never gets to represent the flying general public again, and I'm not ashamed to admit that...

Personally, I think it was Hitlers fault

Take care, Rob

mtv wrote:This is factual data: https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/ ... 105855/pdf

MTV

Not exactly.

At the bottom of each page it has a disclaimer


"This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when
the final report has been completed."

Rob wrote:.... mish mash of easily attainable data, overlayed on 4 (yes 4 in 70 years!) incidents / accidents with similar profiles, and somehow he knows exactly what brought that ship down? ...

Once (or if) you get past the arrogant start,
he sounds like he's put together a reasonable hypothesis of what happened.
Until you realize that as Rob points out he's basing it all on just a couple incidents.
The crash was played hard on the local Seattle news, as is the upcoming recovery, due to start next monday.
Hopefully the results of the physical investigation will get similar coverage.

skyward II wrote:My non pilot friends ask me about flying and pilots. I explain pilots are all alphas with different levels of confidence/arrogance. This thread pretty much sums it up.

This argument reminds me of the first couple time I had been sued, or threatened litigation against me. I knew I was right as I did nothing wrong. I wanted to fight.
Once I became wise, and requested to just make subsequent suits go away, it always cost me much less.

Let it go…..

I agree

I agree that Gryder's style is overly aggressive and he has a bias against the NTSB. I appreciate that he is willing to look at possible probable cause and make logical recommendations. We need to examine as best we can the greater amount of information available now with video and electronic stuff. Also all of us with experience, good and bad, need to make logical recommendations. NTSB is not quick enough to help with the best guess about probable cause, especially when very apparent. NTSB's lack of recommendations, if Gryder's data is accurate is not helpful. Jaun Browne has a much better bedside manner doing the same thing. Also our own Gunny at Flywire helps out as well.

We who have lots of experience, good and bad, are morally obligated to say something when 300 or so of our fellow pilots are doing things that result in their death yearly. The airlines have solved this kind of recurrent problem with AQP in very expensive simulators so every pilot can fly the problem. We don't have that and we are not newsworthy enough to get the valuable attention that air carriers get from NTSB so it falls to each of us to help as much as we can. Let's cooperate and graduate (reduce fatalities.)

NineThreeKilo wrote: I agree

I got an Airworthiness Concern Sheet Email from the FAA for elevator rear spar cracking near the trim tab hinge. It is in pdf format and I can't figure out how to post it here.

Zane can you help???

I edited my last post a bit. Rob, MTV, and other well spoken and extremely experienced pilots need to help. When I go to the old soldiers home, I fear they will not let me use the computer as much. Or that I may no longer remember how to talk, write, etc.

TangoFox wrote:I got an Airworthiness Concern Sheet Email from the FAA for elevator rear spar cracking near the trim tab hinge. It is in pdf format and I can't figure out how to post it here.

Zane can you help???

Are you able to use the file attachment feature in a post? If you scroll down below the text area for a post, there's some tabs. The first says "Options" and right next to it is "Upload file/image attachment." Click that and you get an option to choose file, the add the file.

Zzz wrote:

TangoFox wrote:I got an Airworthiness Concern Sheet Email from the FAA for elevator rear spar cracking near the trim tab hinge. It is in pdf format and I can't figure out how to post it here.

Zane can you help???

Are you able to use the file attachment feature in a post? If you scroll down below the text area for a post, there's some tabs. The first says "Options" and right next to it is "Upload file/image attachment." Click that and you get an option to choose file, the add the file.

Thanks maybe this will work.

skyward II wrote:Let it go…..

I agree

Not all non-professional accidents analysis and recommendation needs are as obvious as the two Citation parking brake caused accidents. The first killed no one, so the probable cause was easily and quickly identified. NTSB took a couple of years to come out with probable cause and recommendations to check the brake just before takeoff roll. In that two year interval four were killed by the parking brake problem.

I expect the surviving pilots from the first crash put the word out to Cessna and other Citation users. The NTSB is paid and obligated to do that however. A Citation is a big airplane to my thinking. Will the NTSB quickly alert me how miss-interpretation of the ACS about Vx or Vy as appropriate could cause a young student in a small Cessna to think that meant pitch to Vx or Vy as soon as the appropriate V-speed (Vx or Vy?) is reached? So when he stalls halfway down a mile long runway and goes in inverted, the probable cause two years later will be he didn't maintain Vx or Vy as appropriate. The probable cause was he tried to make the little airplane climb when that was certainly not what the little airplane wanted to do. The design of the airplane is to fly. Why do we teach stalling at low altitude instead? When are we going to look at energy management rather than V-speed? When are we going to teach that zoom reserve airspeed in low ground effect is generally more appropriate than Vx or Vy?

Some of the U-tubers are more obnoxious than others. We need a bit more speed than NTSB to save a few more pilots with the probable causes we can pretty clearly see in videos and those other electronic means that are readily available now, and with witness reports. There is a lot of various experience here. We can stick our necks out without being obnoxious and we can tell young pilots, "Don't do that. What does the airplane want to do?" Hell with navigate and communicate. Let's first teach them how to aviate without stalling until they have that wonderful altitude. Navigation out the window, also, can be safely accomplished down here.