I am a lurker with big plans. I got my PPL and have started tailwheel training in a Citabria. I plan to buy my own plane within the next year. I am trying to start out with a Budget of 30K Would love to keep it around 20K and have some money left over for problems or Mods.
Their are a few things I have to live with, like outdoor storage. That's not a situation I can change because I live in Southern California and hangar fees would cost as much as the aircraft.
Im 6 foot 180 lbs . I put that out because I like Luscombe's but have been told by a few people that they are a bit snug
Because Im located around a lot of class bravo airspace the aircraft must be equipped with a Mode C transponder and Radio.
If the price is right installing used electronics is an option
I would like to find out info about engine sizes that will work , corrosion issues to look out for , planes that may be tougher to fly than the others ect.
I like the following aircraft, mostly because of budget
I know there are other posts here with some info already out so Im sorry up front if a lot of these questions have already been answered but I find most aircraft owners don't mind stating their opions about what to do
So here are a few of the planes Im looking at
Cessna, 140 ,120,150 and 170's A 170 would be great but I think it may be over budget
Piper Pacer, Clipper ( I know the Tripacer is a great backcountry plane but I want a taildragger )
Luscombe if I could fit
Older Kitfox if in budget
Taylorcraft
or any other suggestions within price range

I fly out of KSEE but am as close to KRNM I want to be able to do some dry lakebeds in Nevada and thins in the Sierra
I would like to do some airplane camping but also fly to local airports for a 100 dollar hamburger
Maybe Idaho some day

So.........lets here some thoughts
Thanks

i think the next step would be to define your mission. do you need a four seat airplane?

i just bought my first airplane. was wanting a 4 seat (2 + cargo) taildragger that will work decent at high DA's. and around 20k. found a sweet little pa20-22 with a 160hp. so far i am happy but its very early to give a honest review and such.

tailwheel pipers can be found, just have to search and hope timing works out and it doesnt sell before you get there

have you looked at stinson 108s maybe?

I have come to the conclusion that planes can be had in the 20 to 30K range but typically suffer maintenance and condition issues at that price. Very rarely have I seen a person come out clean in that range.
Nice two place kitfox can be had around that price but don't expect anything spectacular. Last time I was shopping in 2013 I looked at over a dozen 108's and pa20-22's . Fabric from the seventies and engines on their last leg was the gold standard. Paper work seemed to also be a major problem on the old birds.
So to sum that up I payed 28k for a reasonable bird in 13 and I'm at 58k now.
Money aside it takes a long time to learn and trust a plane. I would suggest getting what you actually want and keeping it for a long time.

[/quote]Because Im located around a lot of class bravo airspace the aircraft must be equipped with a Mode C transponder[quote]

.......and ADSB by 2020

https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/r ... /airspace/

I bought an older 7ECA that is airworthy, but not "pretty" for $21K three years ago. The other ones I was looking at were around $30-35K, with better fabric (mine is mostly the original 1965 fabric!), but everything else pretty much the same. Every annual, I wonder if my IA is going to tell me it's time to recover, but I figure when that happens, I'll do it myself (under A&P supervision, of course) and that the $15K difference in price will finance the recovering.

So far, other than the ADS-B install (inside the DFW Bravo), hangar, and oil and gas, my only expenses have been the annual inspections - under $700 each. There is a certain ego boost to having a really pretty airplane that others "oooh" and "aaah" over, but I figure once you're inside the plane, you can't see much of the outside anyway... (And the underside of the wings look pretty darn good!)

No problem with a Luscombe, I’m 6’1”and 185 and never had a problem. I’m thinking a 120/140, Luscombe8E or F.
Citabria or Champ with a electrical system.
Dave

I'm 6'1" and although the 140 gets cozy with a second person, it makes for a really nice single person and gear aircraft. Look for one with the 0-200 if possible. Never flown one with the stock C-85, but I heard it's a pretty noticeable difference

There's a lot of good information on BCP regarding first planes...dig a bit.

FWIW: The ONLY thing you need your first airplane to do is be reliable and economical. Load, speed, avionics, tires...none of them matter one little bit. You need to learn how to fly, and that means flight hours you can afford. Period. Your first airplane doesn't need to take you to Idaho or let you camp on the desert playa...you're a long, Long, LONG way from that. Paved strips under 3k with any sort of wind and at any sort of altitude will challenge you more than enough. Enjoy them! They won't be fun and rewarding forever...

I'm 6'5 with size 15 feet, and I've managed to comfortably fly even the smallest of airplanes. I have over 600 hours in a Cessna 140, and learned in a C-150. Take off your shoes and you'll be fine in anything...and you shouldn't be wearing shoes to fly a taildragger anyway.

I think taildraggers are the only airplanes worth the money required to fly them...but you do pay more. Get some insurance quotes ahead of time. You'll pay a LOT less insurance on a nose dragger, and that might be the difference between flying and not flying.

Of all the airplanes you listed, the best one is the one you can find LOCALLY and buy with CONFIDENCE. I'd much rather buy a C-120 on the field with a known history and a mechanic recommend than a Cessna 170 mystery plane at the same (or lesser) price somewhere else.

ALL airplanes, no matter how well kept, require continued maintenance, repair, and coddling. If you strap yourself to buy the airplane of your dreams, you won't be able to fly it enough to justify the tie-down fees, even if you have free, unlimited avgas for life.

Talk to mechanics at your local field and tell them what you're looking for. An airplane that's not for sale might suddenly become for sale...to you. I've never bought an airplane from Barnstormers or Trade-a-Plane...never even looked there for anything other than general pricing information. No offense, but a person with your (or my) knowledge isn't likely to get a good deal there.

At your price range there is zero point in chasing possibilities around the country. You'll just burn a disproportionate percentage of your airplane budget on travel and inspections, and you'll feel obligated to buy something you really shouldn't because you spent so much time and money to look at it. Some people do go across the country to buy a $30k airplane...but the ones who do it successfully know exactly what they are looking for and don't leave home without knowing they're pretty much assured of finding it at the end of the trip. That's not you (or me).

Limit your search to airplanes you can drive to in half a reasonable day. That way you can look at one airplane per day off-work, for nothing more than auto gas and your time. Going beyond that is not prudent, reasonable, or sane.

Don't be in a hurry. Without question the best airplanes in your life are the ones you didn't buy. It's a hell of a lot easier to buy a POS that it is to own it, or sell it.

good luck!

"...and you shouldn't be wearing shoes to fly a taildragger anyway."

"ALL airplanes, no matter how well kept, require continued maintenance, repair, and coddling."

Two really good points!

DeltaRomeo wrote:"...and you shouldn't be wearing shoes to fly a taildragger anyway!

So, if something bad occurs, and you wind up in a survival situation, barefoot?

If you cant fly a tailwheel airplane wearing shoes, you probably should invest in a tricycle gear airplane.....survival situation or no.

MTV

mtv wrote:

DeltaRomeo wrote:"...and you shouldn't be wearing shoes to fly a taildragger anyway!

So, if something bad occurs, and you wind up in a survival situation, barefoot?

If you cant fly a tailwheel airplane wearing shoes, you probably should invest in a tricycle gear airplane.....survival situation or no.

MTV

Hell Mike, I can't even FIT in airplanes with shoes on, regardless of where the third wheel is. I wear moccasins in the summer, and a modern interpretation of mukluks in the winter. I wouldn't want to walk real far in either, but that's the compromise to be able to fly at all. I think the tactile feedback of not wearing shoes is MORE than worth the tradeoff of the dreaded, always-about-to-occure SURVIVAL SITUATION.

As and aside, my great uncle was a P-41 Thunderbolt pilot in WWII, who shot down seven aircraft...including his own. When he bailed out over occupied France his shoes flew off, as he flat refused to fly with boots and was wearing loafers with the soles filed thin. I asked him if he wished he'd been wearing boots, and he looked at me like I was an idget. He said he flew better without boots, and that mattered a hell of a lot more than being barefoot when he punched out. Being barefoot didn't help him any, but it was hardly the crowning discomfort he was about to endure.

I fancy myself a decent tailwheel piiot, and have never bothered with taking my shoes off or finding anything special for footwear beyond my tennies, which are the trailrunner type. Riding bikes, hiking, flying cubs...same footwear. Tactility is adequate. But, I'm only 6'1" with size 10.5. YMMV.

I don’t wear underwear when flying taildraggers, too restricting.

Thanks for the Replies so far. Good Post Hammer. I mean the first one ...Maintenance is my profession. Im an Electronic control electrician in a large water plant so I maintain everything form 12000 volt switchgear to large pumps to 4-20 milliamp instrumentation. I know that wont help a lot because Im not an IA but I know mechanics .
I would rather fly my own plane and pay for parts than to pay 120 an hour wet to gain hours. I also have to get in line with several others so I cant always fly when I want
I already own a boat so I know about throwing money down a hole

As I stated Im about 10 months to a year away and plan to gather as much info as I can on specific models.
Corrosion points to be aware of Engine sizes that just want work Planes that are harder to fly than others regions of the country where corrosion will be more prominent Tail wheel converted aircraft ect
I do hope to find something local , but my normal driving range would cover Oregon to Utah I like road trips

And yeah, even tips about shoes

Insurance seems affordable after looking around.

When I was at the really frustrated stage "I'll never learn to keep this thing straight" - I started wearing Converse All Stars to fly in and I think it helped. Now I wear boots most of the time, I fly over a lot of rugged terrain. I'm not good enough to appreciate the disadvantage.

I noticed in training for my ticket i flew better when i didnt have a heavy soled shoe, its still one of my personal rules is to never fly in anything heavier than a tennis show or office type shoes, even if that necessitates a pair of boots in the back. I just bought a $20,000 Cessna 140, so far so good, fingefs crossed, and i love her... it can be done. Research the crap out of each make and model as you meantioned., find out the good, bad and ugly of each one.

Couldnt agree more w the comment, airplane one needs to be most reasonable all around you can find so you can afford to fly her more. A few showplane level birds caught my eye, but for 10 or 15k more they offered nothing more in terms of hours and mechanical condition, just were drop dead georgous. Mines not a show plane but nothing to be embarassed to show anyone and 10 or 15k is a lot of gas. $10k is about 400 flying hours in a 140 woth of 100LL...

Had a similar thing when I was learning to fly with shoes. Seemed like I could only do it right with my old worn out Doc Martensso they became my flying shoes. After a hundred hours or so, it didn’t matter anymore but it was a good comfort at the time.

Check out "Flying Shoes" by
Townes Van Zandt

https://youtu.be/MMoS2hp2BgE

Huckster79 wrote:I noticed in training for my ticket i flew better when i didnt have a heavy soled shoe, its still one of my personal rules is to never fly in anything heavier than a tennis show or office type shoes, even if that necessitates a pair of boots in the back.

Took me about 100 hrs to work up to flying in cowboy or work boots. Before that, sneakers only. Now my plane and I know each other a little better, and it's nice to avoid the shoe change from time to time. As a 6'1 guy with size 13s, who learned in a C152 and now flies a Tri Pacer, the shoes were never an issue for fit, and I wouldn't want to be barefoot in case anything went wrong...

Jeeeeeeez, what a buncha weenies! Some kinda sho fetish going on with you guys?

For many years I flew wearing hip boots in summer and bunny boots in winter. That was in country and landing places where survival was a very real issue.

One thing I noticed early on was a helicopter pilot I was working with always wore bunny boots in winter, and heavy hiking boots in summer. I always figured if he could fly that helicopter wearing that footwear, I should be able to fly a 185 wearing something similar. And, oh could that gent make that JetRanger dance....

I guess I never give what shoes I’m wearing a thought before I go fly these days. Maybe I should look into some ballet shoes......

MTV